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Topik: Elite group |
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Quote ( João Monteiro @ March 14th 2013,19:11:27 )
and do you think that this random factor should define the success?
I don't see the problem with race by race randomness and I don't believe race by race randomness defines long term success.
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If I can reiterate what I said on the tyres thread, in my opinion it should be the one with the lowest cost tyres who has to spend more to be able to score, not the one with the expensive tyres to have to catch up when the weather is hot
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Quote ( João Monteiro @ March 14th 2013,16:51:24 ) that's why i think tyres should be removed as part of the "winning package".
we can control our car, our driver and our staff.
but no one can control how it will be atmospheric conditions throughout the season
I fully agree !
Quote ( Christer Andersson @ March 1st 2013,19:17:32 ) return to the default tyres we had prior to season 17.
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Quote ( Christer Andersson @ March 14th 2013,20:13:57 ) Quote ( João Monteiro @ March 14th 2013,16:51:24 )
that's why i think tyres should be removed as part of the "winning package".
we can control our car, our driver and our staff.
but no one can control how it will be atmospheric conditions throughout the season
I fully agree !
Quote ( Christer Andersson @ March 1st 2013,19:17:32 )
return to the default tyres we had prior to season 17
I admit that i have some "saudades" about that times, but i´m afraid that wont happen again :(
If the problem is BY winning races at cold and dry temp.
Maybe change peak temp from By and M, By with 24º and M with 18º....would resolve it.
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Quote ( Sion Francis @ March 14th 2013,19:07:47 ) Last season was extremely badyear friendly, and the bridgerock still won. Seems to have worked to me.
Maybe my performance was a bit overachieving taking in consideration weather conditions in the whole season. We can not forget Toygun, who is a great manager and have/had a great package, was beaten for a BY guy.
The main question about the weather: Is purely random or not? I mean next race weather is decided for admins or generated automaticly by the system? A fair season IMO having tyre supplier as parameter would be: 4 dry races on temps below 20ºC, 4 dry races on temps between 20 and 30ºC, 4 dry races on temps above 30ºC, 2 full wet races (one cold and one hot), 3 races with mixed conditions. Schuffle all that races in a season and we could have a very fair championship and very probably BR tyre will be the most successful, followed by M and BY.
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Toygun stopped trying about race 3 :)
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Quote ( Sion Francis @ March 14th 2013,23:08:42 ) Toygun stopped trying about race 3 :)
I dont remember he using lower CTR or smoking frequently. And also dont remember he using car level below L10 and out of top6 on car level the whole season. I know what you meant, but in a fair season he wouldnt be below of P2.
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I think we should all have the same tyre. In elite we could pay more for tyres than Master, Master more than Pro, etc.
I think it is ridiculous having to choose tyres at the beginning of the season, and then the weather destroys your chances of doing well.
Where is the skill in that ???
This is a Management Game, where one has to skilfully manage one's car, driver, staff, finances etc.
It makes NO SENSE to have a complete random aspect with the weather which has a decisive roll in your results, because of a tyre.
Once again, we should all have the same tyres at a particular level (Elite), maybe with different features in the higher levels (Pro, Master, Elite)
OR alternatively, one should be able to change tyre according to the weather as one pleases, i.e. a new tyre for every race.
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Quote ( Christer Andersson @ March 14th 2013,23:25:04 ) OR alternatively, one should be able to change tyre according to the weather as one pleases.
That would work like there was only one tyre...because everybody will chose the better tyre for the race.
Unless at the beginning of the season, instead of choosing a tyre you can chose a package.
For ex.
6 tyres of BR 6 Tyres of M and 5 tyres of BY cost Y
17 tyres of BR cost Y+X
17 tyres of BY cost Y-W
Every combination is possible.....depending on what you wont to speend.
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Quote ( Nuno Vicente @ March 14th 2013,23:35:22 ) That would work like there was only one tyre...because everybody will chose the better tyre for the race.
Unless if one purposely wanted to save money, by choosing a cheaper tyre, you know "tactical decisions".
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Quote ( Nuno Vicente @ March 14th 2013,23:35:22 ) 6 tyres of BR 6 Tyres of M and 5 tyres of BY cost Y
17 tyres of BR cost Y+X
17 tyres of BY cost Y-W
Every combination is possible.....depending on what you wont to speend.
Yes, but then only the rich manager could win, so that wouldn't be a solution either, unless it was capped, where everyone could afford a package.
Or, as you say, everyone receives a fixed package with a combination of tyres, where everyone pays the same, which costs $3m per race.
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Someone should suggest customized tyres...
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Quote ( Michael Winkley @ March 14th 2013,23:48:59 ) Someone should suggest customized tyres...
I like it ....with some limitations, ofc
Pay as you use :)
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Quote ( Nuno Vicente @ March 15th 2013,00:22:01 ) Quote ( Michael Winkley @ March 14th 2013,23:48:59 )
Someone should suggest customized tyres...
I like it ....with some limitations, ofc
Pay as you use :)
Where were you 2 years ago, eh? /gb/forum/ViewTopic.asp?TopicId=16729&Page=1
;P
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Quote ( Michael Winkley @ March 15th 2013,00:27:34 ) Where were you 2 years ago, eh? /gb/forum/ViewTopic.asp?TopicId=16729&Page=1
;P
Maybe I missed?!
Or only undecided back then :)
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I think that if you had picked Badyears last season, Toygun would probably have won the title. He was in money saving mode for basically the whole season, so to say his finishing third shows that bridgerocks were underperforming is not a great example.
I think the tyre suppliers are, more or less, working...It would be nice to have a season where maybe four people actually try for the title and two pick bridgerocks and two pick Ms and we go from there, but the situation is absolutely fine in my book.
Frontrunning elites are forced onto expensive tyres if they want to win, midfielders can get away with cheaper options which allow them to keep making progress inspite of not being in the top 5 or whatever. This is good - it is much much better than it used to be when everyone was on the same tyre. Back then, the advantage of the frontrunners was monstrous, and it would be again if it was brought back. If the price we have to pay for that mechanic is an occasional run of weather that favours one tyre over another, that's fine by me. As long as I keep making good tyre choices, the results will inevitably come.
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Quote ( Nuno Vicente @ March 15th 2013,00:36:33 ) Quote ( Michael Winkley @ March 15th 2013,00:27:34 )
Where were you 2 years ago, eh? /gb/forum/ViewTopic.asp?TopicId=16729&Page=1
;P
Maybe I missed?!
Or only undecided back then :)
I remembered now,
The problem is even with a good custom and expensive tyre you still depend on the weather:(
I prefer the Packs idea. ofc packs would be a bit more expensive than only one tyre solution.
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Quote ( Michael Winkley @ March 14th 2013,23:48:59 ) Someone should suggest customized tyres...
No, because the managers with the most money will choose the best parameter (which obviously would cost more), and hence, they would win all the time.
I say all managers have the same tyre at the same level (elite, master, etc.)
I can only repeat this:
Quote ( Christer Andersson @ March 14th 2013,23:25:04 ) I think it is ridiculous having to choose tyres at the beginning of the season, and then the weather destroys your chances of doing well.
Where is the skill in that ??? Quote ( Christer Andersson @ March 14th 2013,23:25:04 ) It makes NO SENSE to have a complete random aspect with the weather which has a decisive roll in your results, because of a tyre.
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Quote ( João Monteiro @ March 14th 2013,19:11:27 ) and do you think that this random factor should define the success?
Quote ( Christer Andersson @ March 14th 2013,23:25:04 ) It makes NO SENSE to have a complete random aspect with the weather which has a decisive roll in your results
So what do you suggest? Remove all random factors from the game?
Ok, let's remove sponsors too, because there is quite a randomness in the contracts they are offering.
Remove all randoms in race, they are totally unfair. Also driver mistakes, they are also dependent on luck.
And yes, we have rain probability. We don't want that. It is a probability. Exact forecast would be much better imo.
I could continue this way...
Will be the game like this more fair?
Yes it will.
Is this the game you want to play?
No for me...
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Quote ( Andrej Borsuk @ March 15th 2013,09:56:50 ) So what do you suggest? Remove all random factors from the game?
The statement is if you read "...a decisive roll in your results..." where the results refers to the race results. The point is DECISIVE! where the money you get from the results has a direct effect to the future plans of the manager.
I did not say remove all random factors, and I am NOT implying that either.
Quote ( Andrej Borsuk @ March 15th 2013,09:56:50 ) Is this the game you want to play?
No for me...
What Bullshit is that!!! Try to understand the main point, before saying something so ridiculous :)
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I still think the whole sponsor system needs looking at before any of this tyre BS. The sponsor system has needed an overhaul for a while.
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Quote ( Andrej Borsuk @ March 15th 2013,09:56:50 ) So what do you suggest? Remove all random factors from the game?
of course not Andrej!!
this is a game, and like all games luck or misfortune must be present.
but in this case of tires is slightly more than that.
Quote ( Andrej Borsuk @ March 15th 2013,09:56:50 ) Ok, let's remove sponsors too, because there is quite a randomness in the contracts they are offering.
here, I completely disagree with you.
I can even agree that the process may be a bit unfair, but it is not random
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Quote ( Michael Keeney @ March 15th 2013,14:05:32 ) I still think the whole sponsor system needs looking at before any of this tyre BS. The sponsor system has needed an overhaul for a while.
This is all what I would say at this point.
It is realy easy to get stuck on a forest and not recognize any trees. Tyre choices and their effect on performance and success isn't just about speed, but also their cost.
And the cost matters most because we still have a mostly broken/lackluster sponsor system.
You are all trying to find the latest painkiller or putting a new bandaid when the core game design has a severe flaw: The sponsor system.
I'd suggest to fix that first before throwing around any fancy ideas about tyres.
Just imo.
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Quote ( Christer Andersson @ March 15th 2013,12:28:34 ) The statement is if you read "...a decisive roll in your results..." where the results refers to the race results. The point is DECISIVE! where the money you get from the results has a direct effect to the future plans of the manager.
I think puncture for example is quite a decisive factor for the race result :P
Ok, seriously. There are still many races in this season, this season can be still wet and cold.
Having 2/3 races hot among 3 races has much higher probability than having 2/3 races hot in 17 races.
So while among small number of races it might look as a very decisive factor, in the view of the whole season it isn't that decisive.
Quote ( João Monteiro @ March 15th 2013,15:09:11 ) here, I completely disagree with you.I can even agree that the process may be a bit unfair, but it is not random
I understand that big part of the sponsor system is deterministic.
But, ...
Quite a long time ago Ludwig Henry said to me that in that infamous re-run race, he won in both, but after a re-run he got significantly lower duration of the sponsor contract (I don't remember the numbers, you can ask some Tigers probably).
That's pretty damn random to me ;)
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Well done Leo ;]
Terrible pits costed me a win this time.
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Tks, Its a nice achievement to win in that adverse weather. But maybe you and other guys were on wet setup?
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No, you were just better today than others :)
Congrats
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No, just BYs are really fast... ;]
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Quote ( Andrej Borsuk @ March 15th 2013,21:19:27 ) I think puncture for example is quite a decisive factor for the race result :P
A puncture or a race random is a one time thing, now and again. Tyres are for the whole season, and that influences the whole season.
This is my point. The influence is decisive for the whole season, that is why I want that everyone use the same tyre, because the weather influence on tyres is too big compared to other randoms.
In real Formula 1, they also only use one tyre supplier per season.
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