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Topik: [F1] Italian Grand Prix |
130 balasan
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Quote ( Wopke Hoekstra @ September 9th 2019,19:02:10 ) I'll only shortly react to this since it's a bit off the Monza topic, but I want to show my point of view on racing in general. I disagree that Verstappen gave room on the inside and thus had no need to give room on the outside. Leclerc was far enough alongside to be entitled the space, before the door was shut on him. Same here in Monza, Hamilton was far enough alongside to be given a car's width of space and if the black/white flag was available in Austria, I am fairly sure they would have applied it to Verstappen too (which means a warning would have been given). I don't really know why the drivers nowadays think they can "own" a corner by having the inside line or the racing line, or by the virtue of "being ahead". Those unwritten rules are absolute nonsense in my opinion.
First of all the black/white flag has always been available. The moment has been reviewed after the race with resulting no further action. So that clearly tells that there was nothing wrong with the action of Verstappen.
But back to the bot hsituations. The big difference is the position of the defending car. leclerc / Verstappen, Leclerc was on the outside as he gave to much space. Leclerc should haven taken his loss and break and take the inside. There was plenty of space available. Only it looks it was not possible, but that's because we continue the line Leclerc was taking, keep staying on the outside and running out of the track. It was Leclerc driving into Verstappen and not the other way around. verstappen was in a position he didn't have to give space on that side anymore.
Leclerc vs Hamilton, Leclerc was defending on the inside, after he blocked Hamilton out of turn 3. Hamilton was afterwards partly passed Leclerc before leclerc passed by again and had a bit the lead before turn 4. But Here he moved roughly to the right a pushed Hamilton from the track, he didn't give him 1 car space. That they didn't touch was only because of Hamilton stearing to the grass to avoid contact. Otherwise it would have been an accident, that the FIA gave the black/white flag tells that it was not a professional move. The reason he was not getting a penalty was because there was no contact, bit weird, as the only reason there was no contact was because Hamilton avoided a crash by going of the track. Lost time, dirty tyres,so weak explanation of the FIA.
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Quote ( Niek Nijboer @ September 9th 2019,22:49:22 ) First of all the black/white flag has always been available. The moment has been reviewed after the race with resulting no further action. So that clearly tells that there was nothing wrong with the action of Verstappen.
It has always been there, but it was not really used anymore. If you read the news, you could have read that Michael Masi said he was reviving the flag as a sort of "yellow card" to give drivers more knowledge on what is allowed and what not, without directly penalizing them. So yes, it was always there, but they have only started to really use it again since the Belgian Grand Prix. Anyways, the "warning" was given in an instant, and it took them multiple hours to come to the conclusion that Verstappen didn't get a penalty. If he really didn't do anything wrong, they wouldn't have taken that long.
Quote ( Niek Nijboer @ September 9th 2019,22:49:22 ) But back to the bot hsituations. The big difference is the position of the defending car. leclerc / Verstappen, Leclerc was on the outside as he gave to much space. Leclerc should haven taken his loss and break and take the inside. There was plenty of space available. Only it looks it was not possible, but that's because we continue the line Leclerc was taking, keep staying on the outside and running out of the track. It was Leclerc driving into Verstappen and not the other way around. verstappen was in a position he didn't have to give space on that side anymore.
Why is Leclerc not allowed to go on the outside? Because you decide that beforehand? He had the speed and the overlap, that's the whole point I am trying to make. You are saying Leclerc isn't allowed to overtake Verstappen back around the outside, while Verstappen didn't block the outside off yet. If Verstappen was there, there was no room for Leclerc to get on his outside in the first place. Why didn't he have to give space? That's exactly what I don't like about racing nowadays. Drivers (and especially newer fans as well) think that a driver can claim the space. That is in fact the only point I am trying to make. Both moves were wrong in my opinion and didn't result in a penalty. On the one hand, we should be happy that penalties aren't easily given, but on the other hand I would love to see some more respect between drivers on track.
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Quote ( Jasper Coosemans @ September 8th 2019,18:58:37 ) It's exactly the other way around, Martti. I'm talking about being stricter on defensive moves. What we learned today is that you shouldn't try overtaking the way Albon and Hamilton did, because the guy ahead can simply push you off the track. The only thing you end up with is dirty tyres, loss of several positions (Albon) and possible a damaged car. So it is much better to just stay behind and go to the finish.
The current policy discourages overtaking. Handing out some penalties for overly aggressive defending would encourage it.
I am the biggest tifoso of Ferrari, and i'm in paradise for Carletto's victory.
Yet i totally agree with this statement, Leclerc's defence was too much, there's a difference between defending aggressively and pushing your opponent off the track. Allowing this kind of moves discourages overtaking.
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#94 dikirim Sep 10 2019, 10:10:44 (terakhir disunting Sep 10 2019, 10:19:58 oleh Florin Ceapa)
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Quote ( Alessio Girasole @ September 9th 2019,23:16:42 ) am the biggest tifoso of Ferrari, and i'm in paradise for Carletto's victory.
Me too, Alessio
But before I agree to any statements , I want to see the bigger picture , not just one particularity ... because , on one side , Ham was talking about seeing some consistency from the stewards until this event ( thinking at Montreal and forgetting about Austria where he didn’t have anything to lose/win) , But on the other side , a super talented and valuable youngster like Charles should come to a double loser position in all this equation , no matter the facts... and the fact is that the only way for the stewards to show any consistency at all ,exactly what Ham wishes for , is to keep a balance/consistency in line of judgement between Austria and Monza , as well for the rest of the season , and then draw a line and take measures and rules to apply for the seasons to come
You don’t spoil a huge talent like Max , allowing him, in over 50% of the s..t he made in order to find his own line of progress, to get away with it , and then penalize another real talent for the future as Charles by braking consistency when Ham and fans wish for it , even if it proves they do have a strong position on this case
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Quote ( Wopke Hoekstra @ September 9th 2019,23:16:42 ) Why is Leclerc not allowed to go on the outside? Because you decide that beforehand?
Where do I say he was not allowed, he is allowed to do what ever he wants. He is just in a losing position there, a position from where he can't claim anything. He can try to overtake from the outside, but with the risk there is no space and that he has to go off the track! I do like racing when the drivers go to the limit and sometimes over, but when it comes like the Leclerc Hamilton situation I think it's getting close to the edge. I support the black/white flag for it though. I think it was a perfect solution, just surprised that Leclerc didn't get a penalty for the multiple moving, blocking and corner cutting after the black/white flag. To me it doesn't matter who would have won the race. It's just a weird call from the stewards to completely ignore these actions.
Summary; Big fan of Black/white flag, 100% support that, as we want drivers to race and not being bitching about everything. So given them a yellow card principle is perfect. Just two yellow cards is still a red card, what is a penalty..
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Quote ( Niek Nijboer @ September 10th 2019,10:28:52 ) Summary; Big fan of Black/white flag, 100% support that, as we want drivers to race and not being bitching about everything. So given them a yellow card principle is perfect. Just two yellow cards is still a red card, what is a penalty..
this!
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Quote ( Niek Nijboer @ September 10th 2019,10:28:52 ) Just two yellow cards is still a red card, what is a penalty..
Agree... but not every fault is not a yellow card as in football...
Mostly I agree give one warning before the punishment if fault is not to great(like Vettel last race).
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...and behold, drivers changing the way they drive because the FIA are allowing shit defensive moves. First Leclerc after Austria adapting to the new meta, and now Hamilton after Sunday.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/145893/hamilton-will-chang...
Taking bets on when and where the line will be moved again. I'll start at Singapore.
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The translation of what he is saying: "I will not try any more overtakes until I've got my title secured."
Once he has his title sealed, expect him to claim the space regardless and crash out as he did with Rosberg in Barcelona 2016. Then maybe rulemakers will see their stupidity.
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Quote ( Niek Nijboer @ September 10th 2019,10:28:52 ) Where do I say he was not allowed, he is allowed to do what ever he wants. He is just in a losing position there, a position from where he can't claim anything. He can try to overtake from the outside, but with the risk there is no space and that he has to go off the track! I do like racing when the drivers go to the limit and sometimes over, but when it comes like the Leclerc Hamilton situation I think it's getting close to the edge. I support the black/white flag for it though. I think it was a perfect solution, just surprised that Leclerc didn't get a penalty for the multiple moving, blocking and corner cutting after the black/white flag. To me it doesn't matter who would have won the race. It's just a weird call from the stewards to completely ignore these actions.
Summary; Big fan of Black/white flag, 100% support that, as we want drivers to race and not being bitching about everything. So given them a yellow card principle is perfect. Just two yellow cards is still a red card, what is a penalty..
Okay, you didn't say he's not allowed, but you are saying Verstappen is allowed to run him out of road, despite the fact he was way alongside. He wasn't in a losing position, as he made exactly the same move the lap before and made it stick - even though he had a bigger disadvantage that lap. There was no reason for him not to try it again. I like it too when drivers go to the limit, but to me the limit is that you keep space for the other car once he gets alongside. I do understand that that is not the rules F1 follow at the moment, but I do think it's what they should do. That is what I am trying to say.
Also, the only thing I think Leclerc could have been penalized for after the "yellow card", is the corner cut. Honestly I think they let it slip because 1. Italian GP and 2. Vettel/Canada incident. While Leclerc was "moving multiple times" on the straight to break the slipstream, I think he was doing it safely, leaving space at either side of the road while moving and only going back to the racing line for the braking zone. The sporting regulations in F1 don't involve exact rules on what is allowed and what not. If they thought it was unfair, they would have given the black-white flag way earlier. I also don't think he did any wrong blocking. There was one moment in Curva Grande, but I think that was mainly caused by the fact they were going through a corner.
Anyways, I agree with you about the summary, but with Martti as well. :)
Quote ( Martti Kaasik @ September 10th 2019,12:47:00 ) Agree... but not every fault is not a yellow card as in football...
Edit: btw I don't necessarily think your opinion is wrong, I am mainly disagreeing with the way F1 is currently look at racing and what is fair and what is not. I would personally love to see it change a bit with more respect for each other and more respect for the white lines as well. :)
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Or skip the white lines like in the indycar. Fair but hard racing.
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Hello and welcome to F1, the biggest load of rubbish ever :D
FIA giving a mandatory maximum lap time, to stop people slipstreamfest eachother, meaning that noone can create space for eachother so everyone nearly crashed into eachother, just let them be, and if 2019 happens again, its their own fault
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That was the best Q1 ever.
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Quote ( Kyle Morris @ September 5th 2020,15:25:14 ) just let them be, and if 2019 happens again, its their own fault
Couldn't agree more, that final run in Q1 was better than some races in Monaco.
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Quote ( Matija Gjurčević @ September 6th 2020,06:01:43 ) Couldn't agree more, that final run in Q1 was better than some races in Monaco.
Monaco GP is so boring....In nowadays, F1 races is so boring
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Its pretty interesting from 3rd to 15th and when Bottas is in noob mode 2nd to 15th :)
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Stop/go penalty for Hamilton. Is Stroll going to win?
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Stroll as per usual has gotten incredibly lucky. Think all of his standout results he has been lucky with, but gotta be in the right place at the right time?
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Does he not have to stop?
Ok, looks like he doesnt. Come on Gasly!
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Quote ( Sam Wainwright @ September 6th 2020,16:14:37 ) Does he not have to stop?
I tought to myself the same thing after I posted that. That is some luck...
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They are testing the reverse grid system /s
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GASLY YOU BLOODY BEAUTY!!!
Should be back in red Bull now :D
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Such a breath of fresh air not seeing Mercedes on the podium and Ferrari out :D
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Quote ( Kyle Morris @ September 6th 2020,17:02:56 ) GASLY YOU BLOODY BEAUTY!!!
Should be back in red Bull now :D
I dont think Gasly would want to move to Red Bull haha
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Quote ( Kyle Morris @ September 6th 2020,17:02:56 )
Should be back in red Bull now :D
only to be humiliated by Max again...
interesting turn of events this race...
italian team winning and at bottom both not expected
renault slow with customers fast despite good performance at spa
sainz crying due to p2 or Ferrari agreement don't know
albon managed to beat one driver
renault rebranding
rebdull growing confusion regarding seat for next year
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The Netflix "Drive to Survive 2020" Italian GP episode is going to be one to watch for sure.
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Mercedes engineers making ferrari like strategy calls in the race. What a shocking call.
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So long time (24 years) waiting for a French F1 driver on the top of the box. 🇨🇵
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Quote ( Kyle Morris @ September 6th 2020,17:02:56 ) GASLY YOU BLOODY BEAUTY!!!
Should be back in red Bull now :D
i think he do better than Red Bull given what he has been through in the past year. I‘d replace Bottas with tomorrow
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