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Onderwerp: D-Day June 6, 1944 |
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#1 geplaatst Jun 7 2012, 00:58:53
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No topic about D-Day anywhere? I am surprised (and expecing a reply to somethng I missed in my search).
Today was D-Day in 1944. This is an important day to me and I always take the time to respect the men on both sides who fought one heck of a fight today on those beaches. I am a veteran and respect them all.
Might have to break out Saving Private Ryan.
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#2 geplaatst Jun 7 2012, 01:16:50 (laatst aangepast Jun 7 2012, 01:18:17 door Roy Mitchell)
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We, the free world, owe WWII veterans our freedom... Remembrance, honour and respect, to say the least.
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#3 geplaatst Jun 7 2012, 01:18:54
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#4 geplaatst Jun 7 2012, 01:21:30
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Yes, we really have to respect those brave soldiers who opened the second front!
Side note: If they would have done it in Greece, they would have saved several million people from 40 years of dictatorship....
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#5 geplaatst Jun 7 2012, 01:35:40
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Allies would never have won the war without the russians. When D-Day came, the war was already won.
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#6 geplaatst Jun 7 2012, 02:05:31
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That's all debatable, at best. But I think this thread is to honor all of those who sacrificed life and limb in that invasion, not to discuss the politics of it.
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#7 geplaatst Jun 7 2012, 02:07:03
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Quote ( Mike Becnel @ June 7th 2012,00:58:53 ) Might have to break out Saving Private Ryan.
Oddly enough I watched that this morning whilst waiting for a parcel to be delivered! I had no idea of the date either.
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#8 geplaatst Jun 7 2012, 02:16:00 (laatst aangepast Jun 7 2012, 02:34:49 door Keri Lovell)
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Quote ( Pedro Prediger @ June 7th 2012,01:35:40 )
Allies would never have won the war without the russians. When D-Day came, the war was already won. Quote ( Adrian Summers @ June 7th 2012,02:05:31 ) That's all debatable, at best. But I think this thread is to honor all of those who sacrificed life and limb in that invasion, not to discuss the politics of it.
Its not actually debatable, its been admitted by the allies that without Russia there would be no D-Day. Russia was the biggest mistake the Nazi's ever made. Thats not political, its an historical fact.
But Adrian is right, this thread is to mourn those who died and celebrate those who lived, so much peace to them. And my grandfather who also fought on the beaches.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sN1sDf0eZ3c
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#9 geplaatst Jun 7 2012, 02:38:28
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Yeah, for some reason I couldn't quote in my last post. I was really referring to Quote ( Pedro Prediger @ June 7th 2012,01:35:40 ) When D-Day came, the war was already won. which is false. A war is not over until one side surrenders. To say that is disrespectful to all who sacrificed on that day.
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#10 geplaatst Jun 7 2012, 02:53:54
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Quote ( Keri Lovell @ June 7th 2012,02:16:00 ) But Adrian is right, this thread is to mourn those who died and celebrate those who lived
Absolutely, well over 100000 people died during the fighting in Normandy in an invasion that was totally necessary to destroy the Nazi regime. The vast majority who died were in the German armed forces and most of them were simply soldiers, with no strong political views, fighting for their country. They deserve our respect as much as the 'Allies' who died.
Of course the 'Second Front' had been opened in 1943 with the invasion of Italy but Russia was still getting hammered to the extent that Stalin was very vocal about the necessity of an invasion in Western Europe to draw more Wehrmacht troops away from the Eastern front.
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#11 geplaatst Jun 7 2012, 02:56:51 (laatst aangepast Jun 7 2012, 03:00:46 door Keri Lovell)
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Quote ( Paul Bright @ June 7th 2012,02:53:54 ) The vast majority who died were in the German armed forces and most of them were simply soldiers, with no strong political views, fighting for their country. They deserve our respect as much as the 'Allies' who died.
100% agree. War is a horrible thing and most people dont want any part of it, they simply do what they think is right at the time.
Doesnt matter where you are from, we have evolved enough now to live in peace. If we could only learn how to share wealth now, Im pretty sure the world would never have to fight again ;-)
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#12 geplaatst Jun 7 2012, 03:08:55
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Quote ( Keri Lovell @ June 7th 2012,02:56:51 ) we have evolved enough now to live in peace.
Sadly that's not really true :(
Quote ( Keri Lovell @ June 7th 2012,02:56:51 ) If we could only learn how to share wealth now, Im pretty sure the world would never have to fight again ;-)
Agree on this as that would be the key for living in peace. But for that the whole "sick" money system would need to change, but lets not go there.
"Imagine it's war and no one joins"
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#13 geplaatst Jun 7 2012, 03:11:21
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Quote ( Adrian Summers @ June 7th 2012,02:38:28 ) #9 posted today at 02:38:28 Quote
Yeah, for some reason I couldn't quote in my last post. I was really referring to
Quote ( Pedro Prediger @ June 7th 2012,01:35:40 )
When D-Day came, the war was already won. which is false. A war is not over until one side surrenders. To say that is disrespectful to all who sacrificed on that day.
Its not false Adrian... Germany was beaten at that time. And its not meant to be disrespectful, only pointing that war was won at that time, as Germany had no more power to fight in 2 fronts. Its like to be losing 5-0 with 10 minutes to the game end.
Quote ( Keri Lovell @ June 7th 2012,02:16:00 ) Russia was the biggest mistake the Nazi's ever made.
As Napoleon. ;)
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#14 geplaatst Jun 7 2012, 03:29:25
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Adrian is correct.
Stalin felt that Russia could not stand up to German military power long term which is why he pushed the Allies into making the invasion. This is pretty well documented.
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#15 geplaatst Jun 7 2012, 04:18:10
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Quote ( Pedro Prediger @ June 7th 2012,01:35:40 ) Allies would never have won the war without the russians. When D-Day came, the war was already won.
And Russia's greatest ally, the Russian winter. Wow what an equalizer. I got to see it first hand flying over Russia for a layover in Moscow on the way to Singapore. I've not seen that much white in one place. WALLS of snow surrounded the runways.
One of the guys on my sister team has been telling me how lovely it is in the East this year. I was walking around in shorts checking to see if my pool was warm enough to swim...he was stuck at home due to many feet of snow the night before.
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#16 geplaatst Jun 7 2012, 04:26:27
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I think the ins and outs of it aren't so important. But what we know is ordinary people made the biggest possible sacrifice to protect our freedom. I for one am very thankful.
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#17 geplaatst Jun 7 2012, 09:52:49
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Quote ( Keri Lovell @ June 7th 2012,02:56:51 ) Doesnt matter where you are from, we have evolved enough now to live in peace
Pretty much what Christoph said actually.
I don't think we have.
Quote ( Keri Lovell @ June 7th 2012,02:56:51 ) If we could only learn how to share wealth now, Im pretty sure the world would never have to fight again ;-)
We've been going the other way!
Got 5 minutes to kill? Good. http://xkcd.com/980/
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#18 geplaatst Jun 7 2012, 10:16:27
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Quote ( Mike Becnel @ June 7th 2012,00:58:53 ) respect the men on both sides
i respect the men on one side, ours, you do not respect the axis forces. evil ********. the pain and horror they inflicted of the young boys and men of that generation should never be respected.
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#19 geplaatst Jun 7 2012, 10:19:59
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Quote ( John Lewis @ June 7th 2012,10:16:27 ) i respect the men on one side, ours, you do not respect the axis forces. evil ********. the pain and horror they inflicted of the young boys and men of that generation should never be respected.
Do you think the same thing about the British people that have lost their lives in the Middle East or do you have a brain?
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John Smith in saying the wrong things, at the wrong time, in the wrong place shocker.
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#21 geplaatst Jun 7 2012, 10:28:22
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Quote ( John Lewis @ June 7th 2012,10:16:27 ) i respect the men on one side, ours, you do not respect the axis forces. evil ********. the pain and horror they inflicted of the young boys and men of that generation should never be respected.
What did Finns do to be called evil ********? Technically Finland was part of axis forces too after all...
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#22 geplaatst Jun 7 2012, 10:41:38
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Quote ( Mike Becnel @ June 7th 2012,00:58:53 ) take the time to respect the men on both sides
Well said ..... thanks for posting this topic Mike.
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#23 geplaatst Jun 7 2012, 11:28:09 (laatst aangepast Jun 7 2012, 11:30:14 door Paul Bright)
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Quote ( John Lewis @ June 7th 2012,10:16:27 ) i respect the men on one side, ours, you do not respect the axis forces. evil ********. the pain and horror they inflicted of the young boys and men of that generation should never be respected.
This is a typical comment from someone who does not understand the second world war and only has films and video games to educate them.
Whilst it is true that the Nazi SS were responsible for initiating a huge number of atrocities the huge majority of 'Axis' forces were regular soldiers in the Wehrmacht army. The regular soldiers were no better or worse than the Allies when it came to how they treated the enemy and civilians.
...and lets not forget the 'young boys' killed in the defence of their country, Germany, where the invading Allies fought with people we would call children.
In war everyone commits acts of 'pain and horror' to a greater or lesser degree.
Given the current ongoing wars it is perhaps odd that I find the best words for remembering the dead of wars come from an Islamic prayer.
'Forgive our living and our dead'
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#24 geplaatst Jun 7 2012, 11:45:15
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Quote ( Paul Bright @ June 7th 2012,03:29:25 ) Stalin felt that Russia could not stand up to German military power long term which is why he pushed the Allies into making the invasion. This is pretty well documented.
Uhm, it's very questionable... German military power? What power was left in Eastern front in 1943 spring? Documented where? Sorry, but these are just things of interpretation. Deeper insight is needed to understand Soviet plans in late 30's and and WWII.
Yes, the free world should owe WWII veterans for their freedom, but the free world somehow forgot those 3 little Baltic countries, who waited 50 years for their freedom...
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#25 geplaatst Jun 7 2012, 12:58:34
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Stalin had needed an invasion of Western Europe since 1941 and had asked repeatedly that such be put into action.
However due to the large numbers of German troops in that theatre the Allies weren't at all keen!
In 1943 the Invasion of Italy by the Allies drew a small number of troops away and prevented so many being sent as a reserve to the Eastern Front, the surrender of the Italians put more pressure on the German armed forces too.
The Soviet Union was pushing the Germans out of their country but Stalin felt that they did not have the ability to project military power far beyond their borders and achieve a total defeat of the Nazi regime. Hence he dominated the Tehran Conference late in '43 and plans for the invasion of Western Europe were begun at his behest.
The invasion in June 1944 prevented millions of troops held in reserve from entering the Eastern Front and stopping the Soviet advance.
Unfortunately there was a cost to victory over Germany and the citizens of eastern europe paid heavily for decades. Because Stalin basically got everything he asked for in Tehran and later in Yalta it paved the way for Soviet domination over the people of neighbouring countries (and included border shifts).
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#26 geplaatst Jun 7 2012, 13:07:19
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I went to France and to the Normandy beeches and fields where the bombs had landed quite amazing, the bombs made massive ditches.
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#27 geplaatst Jun 7 2012, 13:25:20
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Quote ( Paul Bright @ June 7th 2012,12:58:34 ) but Stalin felt
You know what Stalin felt? Not even his closest aides knew that.
As for WWII, Stalingrad and Kursk were the turning points, winter1942/summer1943, that´s where the german offensive turned defensive. From that point, the fall of Third Reich was only a question of time.
Anyway, this thread is about D-day, so my respect to all those who fought there.
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#28 geplaatst Jun 7 2012, 13:31:05
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Not sure the thread was opened to discuss what may or may not have happened, or what hidden agendas anyone may have had, it was to remember those that gave their lives so that we could enjoy the "freedom" we have now.
I am also grateful.
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#29 geplaatst Jun 7 2012, 13:32:25
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Quote ( John Lewis @ June 7th 2012,10:16:27 ) i respect the men on one side, ours, you do not respect the axis forces. evil ********. the pain and horror they inflicted of the young boys and men of that generation should never be respected. Quote ( Markus Toivonen @ June 7th 2012,10:28:22 ) What did Finns do to be called evil ********?
They didn't shop in the right stores.
Without entering into a political discussion (and especially not one about more modern Mesopotamian conflicts, as I don't trust myself) I would like to add my respect for men who showed greater courage than I believe I ever could.
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#30 geplaatst Jun 7 2012, 13:34:32
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John Lewis you are welcome to your opinion. Period.
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