| Thi' Captain Spake |
Jabb'r: Is this cheating? |
's many 's 705 answ'rs
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Apologies if this has been raised before but couldn't spot anything on a quick search:
One of my team mates has recently been approached by another team who have promised him access to the following if he joins them:
a) A tool to give him a perfect setup for a race without having to do any practice laps (this seems to me like breaking the game and therefore surely should be considered cheating as it would save up to 400k a race and give someone a clear advantage)
b) A tool to give 100% accurate fuel for any given race/temp/car etc (while this may not be breaking the game it seems to me it takes half the fun out of it).
Is it just me or does anyone else feel the same way?
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nope this is not cheating at all. the team is having some really experienced members and have collected a lot of data over time :)
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no it's not.
if you have a formula that gives you perfect setup, why bother to make the 8 practice laps ? maybe for wingsplit
if you have a formula that gives you the exact distance for the tyres, then you call this cheating ? :)
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Not even a bit. Consider you getting the tools, will you say NO to it?
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Not cheating, as others have already said. I do think it's a slight problem that the game has been solved to the extent that it has, but that's a different topic.
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Quote ( Dan Dumitras @ September 5th 2011,08:19:08 )
no it's not.
if you have a formula that gives you perfect setup, why bother to make the 8 practice laps ? maybe for wingsplit
if you have a formula that gives you the exact distance for the tyres, then you call this cheating ? :)
What Dan said.
Though taking the fun out of the game is debatable, having tools is not cheating.
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Quote ( Alan Horsley @ September 5th 2011,08:17:35 )
a) A tool to give him a perfect setup for a race without having to do any practice laps (this seems to me like breaking the game and therefore surely should be considered cheating as it would save up to 400k a race and give someone a clear advantage)
b) A tool to give 100% accurate fuel for any given race/temp/car etc (while this may not be breaking the game it seems to me it takes half the fun out of it).
Many of teams have more or less similar tools to calculate these things:-D
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Breaking the rules no. gaining an advantage yes. just look at the previous tyres market everyone waited until the last day to gain an advantage over their competitors. this game is all about knowledge and using it to your best ability.
would you consider using somebody else is practice laps tool that tells you what to input next like there is on a well known website. not sure if i can post link so i won't. would that be considered cheating as that gives you an advantage over the guys who dor not know of it
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not at all cheating. This is part and parcel of the game. Happens usually i guess!
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Technically it's not cheating. The problem lies in the fact that some have those tools and some don't. And those who have them gain a huge advantage over those who haven't. The core mechanics of the game don't change and those who have played it long enough and have run enough analysis on their data have practically broken the game as it no longer presents them with a technical challenge. What's even more annoying is that a totally new player without any such tool will need at minimum half a year just to run all tracks once to be barely competitive with the rest.
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Quote ( Krasimir Ivanov @ September 5th 2011,08:58:19 )
The problem lies in the fact that some have those tools and some don't. And those who have them gain a huge advantage over those who haven't. The core mechanics of the game don't change and those who have played it long enough and have run enough analysis on their data have practically broken the game as it no longer presents them with a technical challenge. What's even more annoying is that a totally new player without any such tool will need at minimum half a year just to run all tracks once to be barely competitive with the rest.
But isn't it the main point of the game? to find formulas, of the game, and with that become the best? Or you just drive with random setups and fuel? I think not, and if some are a bit smarter in game to figure it out faster, then you can't blame them, as that's what sort out best managers from no the best ;)
And if admins would very often change formulas etc of the game, then there would not be any chance of figuring out formulas, and that just would kill the point of the game. So far admins have made changes to game time to time so i would not say that game is unfair.
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I want that tool too. :D
Could it be "The Tool (TM)" courtesy of Phantom 3 ?
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Quote ( Erik Šindikov @ September 5th 2011,09:03:41 )
But isn't it the main point of the game? to find formulas, of the game, and with that become the best? Or you just drive with random setups and fuel? I think not, and if some are a bit smarter in game to figure it out faster, then you can't blame them, as that's what sort out best managers from no the best ;)
Agree with this completely! That's what this game is all about. Collecting data and using it in your advantage.
But having a fuel and setup formula doesn't mean you're on a rocket to Elite :) It takes a lot more as you'll find out or already have.
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Quote ( Erik Šindikov @ September 5th 2011,09:03:41 )
But isn't it the main point of the game? to find formulas, of the game, and with that become the best?
Absolutely and this is something i have dabbled with myself (with little success so far) but to have it handed to you on a plate? I told my teammate if he gains access to such tools i want no part of it. I play the game to challenge myself.
Quote ( David Jones-Winkley @ September 5th 2011,08:43:26 )
would you consider using somebody else is practice laps tool that tells you what to input next like there is on a well known website
Yes, i do use this but it is merely a time saving device for something i could do equally as well on paper. Perhaps when i reach elite i will have enough info to simulate these tools myself in which case i might be prepared to use them but i don't want them until i reach that level of knowledge.
Quote ( Deepak Kar @ September 5th 2011,08:23:00 )
Not even a bit. Consider you getting the tools, will you say NO to it?
I already have ;)
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As a start maybe Admins should have minimum practice laps that must be done before qualifying.
On a side note if there are too many tools doing all the work with regards to pre-race then I have serious concerns over the longevity of this game.
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Until and unless its not effecting the working of game, Nor breaking any rules in guide or manipulating game database. Its not at all cheating.
Its definitely an advantage for the team and its members for having such formulas / tools. But the manual process is much more accurate and trustworthy than those tools.
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These tools are just the reward of data collection and analysing it well. I wouldn't worry about it being game breaking though as these are only parts of the game. Of course they give a big advantage over a newer player, but why should a newer player be on equal footing to those that have stored and analysed enough data to do accurate calculations?
Where you can debate is if it is right for a person to be given these tools when he himself has not done the work to create them or even know how they work.
Having access to a few accurate tools will not make anyone Elite material. To be there you must master the management side of the game, which is much more than just set up and ideal race fuel.
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Quote ( Alan Horsley @ September 5th 2011,08:17:35 )
a) A tool to give him a perfect setup for a race without having to do any practice laps
Quote ( Jim Hastie @ September 5th 2011,09:16:28 )
As a start maybe Admins should have minimum practice laps that must be done before qualifying.
I would point out one thing here, how do you know it's perfect setup if you even won't do 1 lap :P even with tools you can get a bit better setup always and how do you know that admins haven't changed anything? so to be sure you would need to do 1 lap anyway, and as Dan already said, that for ws you would do some laps anyway :P
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If anything it just shows how silly and elitist the whole FOBY thing is.
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I think the vast majority of teams should have one of these now. If you search Google you'll find some unsecured ones online. There are at least 2 anyway.
There's just a helping hand though, and they are only as good as the user using them. No substitute for good planning either. So don't be worried.
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Quote ( Gavin Paisley @ September 5th 2011,09:22:20 )
If anything it just shows how silly and elitist the whole FOBY thing is.
Nah, its the "feed me with everything I want to be the best without effort"-attitude thats really silly.
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Quote ( Alan Horsley @ September 5th 2011,09:16:26 )
Absolutely and this is something i have dabbled with myself (with little success so far) but to have it handed to you on a plate? I told my teammate if he gains access to such tools i want no part of it. I play the game to challenge myself.
1. If you join a team with tools you have access to them
2. A lot of 'tools' are excel sheets without any security. Easy to share between non-team-friends
Still, it's a LOT more satisfying to crack a formula with team work than to use other people's tools.
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Quote ( Kevin Parkinson @ September 5th 2011,09:19:08 )
Where you can debate is if it is right for a person to be given these tools when he himself has not done the work to create them or even know how they work.
Yes, this is my main concern. Sometimes i see people in my group doing extremely well with their finances and still running very high level cars.
From now on i will (maybe falsely) assume that they are running off the data of someone far more experienced and will no longer compare my race results to theirs.
Quote ( Mark Webster @ September 5th 2011,09:26:59 )
No substitute for good planning either. So don't be worried.
I hope you are right :)
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Quote ( Maarten T`Kindt @ September 5th 2011,09:32:45 )
Still, it's a LOT more satisfying to crack a formula with team work than to use other people's tools.
Exactly my feeling
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No this is not cheating.
ed: At some point, I started feeling that setting up my car is just a boring chore that has to be done. That was when I started appreciating the comfort and respite setup calculators give.
Setting strategies is still fun though :)
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Quote ( Maarten T`Kindt @ September 5th 2011,09:32:45 )
Still, it's a LOT more satisfying to crack a formula with team work than to use other people's tools.
I disagree.
Something stolen >>> Something earned >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Something given. =P
In all seriousness though, you'll never make sense of something you have been given unless you have done something similar, so you can make sense of it.
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can someone help me , with a good setup for races , havnt figured out the wing split as yet, and always having issues with fuel. i happened to be in the top 4 mostly during the race but by da end of it the last pitstop near the finishing stages always ruin my race, and havnt been able to attract sponsors this way
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Quote ( Mattias Svensson @ September 5th 2011,09:32:03 )
Nah, its the "feed me with everything I want to be the best without effort"-attitude thats really silly.
Spot on. As I, and others, have said, being able to set up your car with no practice laps and get exact fuel is far from the biggest part of being successful in this game.
If someone was to give a noob a couple of these tools, I can see it making them lazy and never progressing, or enjoying the game, as much as they would if they had to learn the basics themselves first.
Quote ( Chinmay Dhopate @ September 5th 2011,09:58:59 )
ed: At some point, I started feeling that setting up my car is just a boring chore that has to be done. That was when I started appreciating the comfort and respite setup calculators give.
Setting strategies is still fun though :)
Also totally agree. Once you have the experience to know how to get perfect set ups every time, the actual doing it is a chore and the goal becomes doing it without using the practice laps. Achieving that accurately is a big achievement. But still not even a small part of what it takes to be successful in the game.
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Well, i have told my team that, although not banned, the use of such tools is frowned up unless they are sufficiently experienced to know this information through racing.
If anyone feels the same way i do and is looking for a team with integrity and who is not afraid of a bit of hard work then please pm me as we have a couple of free slots :)
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