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Wątek: How to make Elite a better place? |
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#1 Opublikowane Sty 3 2012, 23:35:33
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Recently it became a very hot topic because no matter what they do, even quite well prepared masters are doomed for failure sooner or later. This totally kills your motivation for a game quite often.
So it does not hurt to discuss a possible ways to change that no matter if admins listen or not. I will start it with a few suggestions:
1) Sponsors. Sponsors is THE key to success in gpro (rookies should note this :P). Now Elite has very few good sponsors and even those are taken by front runners. So midpackers are left with very average ones and have to fight for them + their progress is so slow that usually they end up with no sponsors or 1 sponsor that is paying crap money.
This is what I offer: increase sponsor progress for Elite midpackers. Also add a few more good sponsors. Maybe even amounts can be bigger a bit (just not sure how to do this without helping front runners even more)
2) Rise master OA limit. Now elite drivers are stronger than ever. So why not to give ability to have stronger master drivers?
Ok, lets add a few more suggestions and improve these ones.
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#2 Opublikowane Sty 3 2012, 23:37:34
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promote me right to Elite, it won't make it easier, but it'll make elite funnier :)
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#3 Opublikowane Sty 3 2012, 23:38:07
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Got to admire your optimism Justinas :))
Love the OA limit point!
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#4 Opublikowane Sty 3 2012, 23:39:57 (ostatnio edytowany Sty 3 2012, 23:40:29 przez Mairo Toom)
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All what Justinas told seems good.
I think there have to be sth done, but I can't tell what, cuz I haven't been there :)
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#5 Opublikowane Sty 3 2012, 23:40:49
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Maybe the oa limits could go like this:
Rookie 85
Amateur 115
Pro 145
Master 180
And yee, make getting sponsors a bit easier for mid-pack runners, and put more of them available in higher groups. Also retire those super high experience drivers ASAP ;)
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#6 Opublikowane Sty 3 2012, 23:41:09
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Quote ( Justinas Smyšliajevas  @ January 3rd 2012,23:35:33 ) 1) Sponsors. Sponsors is THE key to success in gpro (rookies should note this :P). Now Elite has very few good sponsors and even those are taken by front runners. So midpackers are left with very average ones and have to fight for them + their progress is so slow that usually they end up with no sponsors or 1 sponsor that is paying crap money.
Sponsor system in wich you are offered certain amount between let's say 1st and 2nd staff markets of the season. And they also put some objetives (let's say depending your package you must be in a range of positions for races, position in final standings, ending with determinate money, etc).
Same sponsor can make offers to different managers at the same time (example: Santander with McLaren and Ferrari).
Just an idea.
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#7 Opublikowane Sty 3 2012, 23:42:04
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3. Make it even harder to train certain driver stats beyond certain ranges
4. Cap experience and/or rebug the bug fix
5. Increase the exponential factor on facility degredation
6. change the motivation system so that midpack elites can gain it easier than at present
---
In spite of all this, I question the need to change. Establishing yourself in elite should not be easy.
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#8 Opublikowane Sty 3 2012, 23:42:13
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What about adding drivers that come with additional sponsorship. Like Maldonado brought to Williams. May be a good addition?
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#9 Opublikowane Sty 3 2012, 23:43:03
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Quote ( Ash Smith @ January 3rd 2012,23:42:13 )
What about adding drivers that come with additional sponsorship. Like Maldonado brought to Williams. May be a good addition?
That was my idea! ;(
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#10 Opublikowane Sty 3 2012, 23:44:55
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Quote ( Jonathan MacLean @ January 3rd 2012,23:43:03 )
That was my idea
If it gets slated, you can have the idea.
If it gets applause, it's mine...!
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#11 Opublikowane Sty 3 2012, 23:45:18
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Guys guys guys you know how much work it is??? :D
My boss once said the trick is not to give people work but how to get people to work who dont want to work?
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#12 Opublikowane Sty 3 2012, 23:45:18
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Rookie - 95OA
Amateur - 125OA
Pro - 150OA
Master - 185OA (currently 160OA???, so alot more room to move)
Elite 185OA+
Maybe some additional changes would help lower order as well so the gaps didn't increase in the lower grades compared to the higher grades......
Some may not agree, just trying to add some value to the discussion, however i maybe wrong
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#13 Opublikowane Sty 3 2012, 23:46:58
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I like it a lot Justinas! :)
Well, for the sponsors negotiation we could have somehing like this:
1st season in Elite- 75% of bounus in sponsor progress
2nd season in Elite- 50% of bonus
3rd season in Elite- 25% of bonus
4th season in Elite- normal sponsor progress
I think it would be a good addition, as the first 3 seasons are the most compicated for the managers.
What do you think?
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#14 Opublikowane Sty 3 2012, 23:47:32
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#15 Opublikowane Sty 3 2012, 23:47:32
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Quote ( Carlos Villacastin @ January 3rd 2012,23:41:09 )
Same sponsor can make offers to different managers at the same time (example: Santander with McLaren and Ferrari).
This would change sponsor system quite drastically but...we cant count such change out I think :)
Also: some restrictions for sponsor warnings/driver motivation when you suffer a random. Lets say you get a puncture and some sponsors send you a warning, driver mot goes down. There could be some system tweak that in case of puncture or any other true random sponsors dont go mad and driver doesnt drop insane amount of motivation. But this is very hard to implement I think
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#16 Opublikowane Sty 3 2012, 23:49:51
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Quote ( Justinas Smyšliajevas @ January 3rd 2012,23:47:32 ) But this is very hard to implement I think
Well as i said before all changes seem to be hard to implement unless it is about hiding the driver stats ranking in your shortlist. what a big secret change was that??? :D
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#17 Opublikowane Sty 3 2012, 23:50:11 (ostatnio edytowany Sty 3 2012, 23:50:27 przez Sion Francis)
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Quote ( Justinas Smyšliajevas @ January 3rd 2012,23:47:32 ) But this is very hard to implement I think
For a puncture it'd be really simple:
if (!puncture) {
doStuff()
}
if we're talking just any race where there's been some kind of random; that'd be harder.
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I think raising the OA limit as suggested, may be a fair decision.
For sponsor, i would be for quite changing the all system, with something a bit more deep and add a bit of realism on how sponsors behave (just now that i got the hang of it) :P
IMO the game is getting harder for all groups i believe, so increasing the number of groups may even a bit out the competition, so that is a good thing will be already done, also if this has not to do with Elite directly.
And i like this:
Quote ( Carlos Villacastin @ January 3rd 2012,23:41:09 )
Sponsor system in wich you are offered certain amount between let's say 1st and 2nd staff markets of the season. And they also put some objetives (let's say depending your package you must be in a range of positions for races, position in final standings, ending with determinate money, etc).
Same sponsor can make offers to different managers at the same time (example: Santander with McLaren and Ferrari).
Just an idea.
Sponsors giving you bonuses when you reach a certain goal, and so on, problem is that it doesn't have to ruin the economic system of the game as it is now.
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#19 Opublikowane Sty 3 2012, 23:50:49
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Quote ( Jonathan MacLean @ January 3rd 2012,23:47:32 )
*ahem*
Dec 9th 2011, so last year!
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#20 Opublikowane Sty 3 2012, 23:52:23 (ostatnio edytowany Sty 3 2012, 23:53:45 przez Tom Bending)
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Quote ( Justinas Smyšliajevas @ January 3rd 2012,23:35:33 ) 1) Sponsors. Sponsors is THE key to success in gpro (rookies should note this :P). Now Elite has very few good sponsors and even those are taken by front runners. So midpackers are left with very average ones and have to fight for them + their progress is so slow that usually they end up with no sponsors or 1 sponsor that is paying crap money.
I can't quite believe I am disagreeing with a triple champion. But here I go. While sponsors may well be a key to the game, making rookies believe they are "the key to success" is misleading IMO. There are other things that are more important to rookies.
As for the topic, I am hoping to be in master soon and as such have definitely noted Justinas's comment about sponsors :) I lack the experience to offer any good suggestions though. The only thing I will say is that I expect Heidi Aareskoski will not find it difficult to establish herself in elite.
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#21 Opublikowane Sty 3 2012, 23:52:26
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Quote ( Justinas Smyšliajevas @ January 3rd 2012,23:35:33 ) 2) Rise master OA limit. Now elite drivers are stronger than ever. So why not to give ability to have stronger master drivers?
This will adversely affect people promoting from Pro to Master.
As I will, at some point be promoting from Pro to Master, I don't want this to be implemented :p
Pro is already very hard on money, so if you want to make the leap from Pro to Master "harder" you do not want to add this... unless you either:
- Take away tyre supplier choice from Pro
- Increase prize money for pro
- Increase OA limit for Pro as well
One thing I can suggest here is getting rid of TD OA limits for Master, which will help bridge the gap between Master and Elite a lot because:
- It will be possible for Masters to hire much better TDs, and allowing them to get better car a bit more cheaply
- Make top TDs more costly, which means the top Elites will have to either settle for TDs which are not really the best TDs in the game -- which will make it costlier for them to attain the same advantages they get now or they will have to shell out more (actually, considerably more) money for the same advantages
Note, Elites will still be able to offer Championship bonus for their TDs which will give them an inherent advantage over Masters while bidding for them.
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#22 Opublikowane Sty 3 2012, 23:53:59
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Maybe Elite should stay as it is because, well, it's an Elite and it is supposed to be hard to get and stay there.
But I would consider having an "alternative elite", accessible only for those who gets to a certain level (actual Elites, maybe top 10 masters too) for those who want to find a new motivation, a kind of Elite but slightly different formula and coefficients: you will still be an Elite, but it will be like restarting to play from scratch.
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#23 Opublikowane Sty 3 2012, 23:56:29 (ostatnio edytowany Sty 3 2012, 23:56:46 przez Jimmy De Roy)
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Quote ( Chinmay Dhopate @ January 3rd 2012,23:52:26 )
- Increase OA limit for Pro as well
The main idea is to change it for all groups but not in one step because of the work it would mean for our poor ...
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#24 Opublikowane Sty 4 2012, 00:00:01
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Quote ( Chinmay Dhopate @ January 3rd 2012,23:52:26 )
This will adversely affect people promoting from Pro to Master.
I agree. Then yeah, maybe pro oa limits increase.
But I say no amateur oa limit increase because amateurs live very good now, even too good :P people stay there to boost their finances :P
Quote ( Chinmay Dhopate @ January 3rd 2012,23:52:26 )
One thing I can suggest here is getting rid of TD OA limits for Master, which will help bridge the gap between Master and Elite a lot because:
Disagree. Unless we add a huge amount of good new TDS (or retire old ones at once) Elite lacks good TDS already. So imagine what will be if masters will be able to sign them? The difference between those with good tds and those without will increase hugely.
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#25 Opublikowane Sty 4 2012, 00:00:06
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Quote ( Marco Predappio @ January 3rd 2012,23:53:59 )
Maybe Elite should stay as it is because, well, it's an Elite and it is supposed to be hard to get and stay there.
From what I have seen so far -- and I am in a team which had 3 reigning champions and another manager who finished 2nd twice -- it is very hard to reach Elite top spots.
Once there it is considerably easy (compared to how much effort it takes to reach there) to stay there.
This is what Justinas is proposing to change (I think).
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#26 Opublikowane Sty 4 2012, 00:02:29
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Take a look at Jimmys driver stats posted in elite thread and also the recently released drivers for Rafal, Denis and Erkki.
Then take a look at Uzi's retiring driver.
It just reinforces the 'overpowered' effect of high Exp. Fine for car wear but Q pace makes it a killer stat above all others.
The released drivers pre 'bug fix' would have stood a chance of being very competitive, now how ever it is tough (yes its meant to be).
How many more seasons are needed before these high exp drivers finally retire from the game and the next generation of drivers comes through?
Either:
1) reduce the speed effect (a little) of exp over 250 from its current level, but keep reduced wear or
2) raise the OA limits for Master and Pro and maybe amateur.
There are already many decent suggestions around sponsorship and what could be tweaked:
/gb/forum/ViewTopic.asp?TopicId=4792&Page=1
/gb/forum/ViewTopic.asp?TopicId=9805&Page=1
for those not familiar with the 'bug fix' take a read here:
/gb/forum/ViewTopic.asp?TopicId=264&Page=173#post1276500
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Quote ( Justinas Smyšliajevas @ January 4th 2012,00:00:01 ) But I say no amateur oa limit increase because amateurs live very good now, even too good :P people stay there to boost their finances :P
Yep, I agree :)
If anything it would improve the balance of the game if Pro and Master OA limits are raised...
Quote ( Justinas Smyšliajevas @ January 4th 2012,00:00:01 ) Disagree. Unless we add a huge amount of good new TDS (or retire old ones at once) Elite lacks good TDS already. So imagine what will be if masters will be able to sign them? The difference between those with good tds and those without will increase hugely.
Yes, but you cannot hoard TDs, you have to re-sign them in open market every season. Those with good TDs will thus have to sign then by paying out bigger salaries. That will kind of negate advantages once the market reaches equilibrium.
Elite midfield has no money to compete with Elite top managers. But managers near Master promotion zone have that much money (considering they are usually not on expensive tyres), so the pressure will increase on the top of Elite much more than it would increase anywhere else.
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#28 Opublikowane Sty 4 2012, 00:04:58
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as far as the experience bug is concerned i think that a nice addition should be to make experience have more drawbacks
the best way to do so imo is to help drivers who statistically have less experience=younger drivers by adding some more positive effects in the attribute called age
about the sponsor idea of justinas i don't know elite situation but i think i can imagine how it looks like
i agree that adding more sponsors should help elite economy but the key may be to decrease the need for high sponsor income in order to maintain in the top 15
in order to achieve that the best way should be to increase even more the price for top tyres or even for the one who is slighly better in most cases
the first thing will ensure that only 10 top managers can use it + some ready promoters from master who both have the money and the package to select them and gain advantage
it will help even more than this year tyre situation did after 2-3 seasons when old driver retire
the second one can help in cases when a manager in top 10 but not title contender needs to gain advantage over the front runners
but will do so only if he/she finds nice strategies + has the package to take results with that tyres...
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Quote ( Marco Predappio @ January 3rd 2012,23:53:59 )
But I would consider having an "alternative elite", accessible only for those who gets to a certain level (actual Elites, maybe top 10 masters too) for those who want to find a new motivation, a kind of Elite but slightly different formula and coefficients: you will still be an Elite, but it will be like restarting to play from scratch.
Perhaps this can be a converted to an idea where Elite group as rule of it's own.
E.g.
Not touch promotion points, let's expand Elite group with more managers, maybe 10 more in total, whereas relegation number would remain the same because of promotion spots in Master meaning more would retain, and perhaps a point added for both 9th and 10th spot since mostly top 8 are managers that are described above as top group-hard to reach. That means it would be more competition for both TOP managers and more spots for retaining . This change would result in many changes with reward system but it can be made so it benefits midpacks better.
Those virtual 10 spots would be filled in upcoming season whereas, less would relegate but more would promote until it evens out.
Somehow expect the idea will be crushed down, but I base it on the idea where ELITE has no LIMITS why should it be limited by the number of managers as other groups or similar aspects. Make it more unique.
And more chances to retain would give more chances to actually BENEFIT from Elite-no-limit-system where they could further develop drivers and not relegate with, perhaps - before mentioned - twist in motivation / sponsor system for non-top-achievers.
Thanks for reading. :)
~ All the suggestion can actually make a good new system that only HAS to be balanced with rest of the game.
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#30 Opublikowane Sty 4 2012, 00:07:16
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Possibly put a max EXP limit in the new generation of drivers, eg. 300.
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