|
Ankieta
What should be the point system
Zaloguj się aby głosować lub obejrzeć rezultaty głosowania
|
| Autor |
Wątek: Point system |
271 odpowiedzi
|
|
|
|
#31 Opublikowane Maj 2 2019, 00:13:11
|
Cytuj
|
Quote ( José Marques @ May 1st 2019,18:30:35 ) Should we switch the point system to the current F1 system? I figure that with 40-player races, points for the top-10 would work better, as they're more representative of the race entrants (25% of the drivers get points, instead of 20% in the current system). Under this system, here's how the points would be attributed:
Position | Old system | New System
1st | 10 | 25
2nd | 8 | 18
3rd | 6 | 15
4th | 5 | 12
5th | 4 | 10
6th | 3 | 8
7th | 2 | 6
8th | 1 | 4
9th | 0 | 2
10th | 0 | 1
I don't think the new fastest lap bonus would be great for this as tyre type couldn't be changed and so everyone would just go on extra softs, maybe not the best idea.
So what do you guys think? Change it or keep it?
Again? :D
|
|
|
|
|
|
#32 Opublikowane Maj 2 2019, 00:15:17
|
Cytuj
|
Quote ( Tibor Szuromi @ May 1st 2019,21:50:59 ) ~ arithmetic series.
That gave me an idea
55-34-21-13-8-5-3-2-1-1 for top ten
|
|
|
|
|
|
#33 Opublikowane Maj 2 2019, 00:23:33
|
Cytuj
|
Quote ( Constantin Heller @ May 2nd 2019,00:15:17 ) That gave me an idea
100-60-30-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1- 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1- 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1- 1-1-1-1-1-1 -1-1-1-1-1 -1-1-1-1-1-1- 1-1 -1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1 -1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1- 1-1-1-1-1
:P
|
|
|
|
|
|
#34 Opublikowane Maj 2 2019, 01:03:58
|
Cytuj
|
Quote ( Jasper Coosemans @ May 1st 2019,20:06:55 )
I know that this is a very popular bandwagon in this game, but have you actually given that any thought or did you just follow the masses? I think it absolutely would add something to the game: it would make retention battles less dependent on countback and more dependent on actual points. That would definitely be a good thing imo.
You are overating the change, have you ever done the math?.
Long time ago when one of this changes was proppsed I had a long flight and an electrical outlet so i decided to download the following final positions:
1 Elite, 2 Master, 4 Pro, 8 ama, 16 Rookie. (Rookie groups ran with +25 cars).
So 31 groups in total and I tested the the proposed alignment ot the F1 scoring, and other ones like points to top 20.
What happened is that the standings remained.the same in all cases with little movents. And maximum one position in the standings.
OBP's were still retaining and only in one case did a change in retention/relegation ocurred. Yes i know it is not statiscallly correct but it would only affect 3.3% of the groups.
To be honest that small change is not worth screwing all statistics.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#35 Opublikowane Maj 2 2019, 01:30:14
|
Cytuj
|
Quote ( Yakup Paçacı @ May 1st 2019,21:43:57 ) 20-17-15-13-11-9-7-5-3-1 (1st-10th)
that 20 there is odd
:V
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Eduardo Sanchez Carenzo @ May 2nd 2019,01:03:58 ) You are overating the change, have you ever done the math?.
Long time ago when one of this changes was proppsed I had a long flight and an electrical outlet so i decided to download the following final positions:
1 Elite, 2 Master, 4 Pro, 8 ama, 16 Rookie. (Rookie groups ran with +25 cars).
So 31 groups in total and I tested the the proposed alignment ot the F1 scoring, and other ones like points to top 20.
What happened is that the standings remained.the same in all cases with little movents. And maximum one position in the standings.
OBP's were still retaining and only in one case did a change in retention/relegation ocurred. Yes i know it is not statiscallly correct but it would only affect 3.3% of the groups.
To be honest that small change is not worth screwing all statistics.
Of course, the difference between the pre-09 and post-09 F1 points system is very small. It's basically everything multiplied by 2.5 with some minor changes.
But I did not propose to use the current F1 system. I was hinting at looking at the methodology used in motorsport (such as F1) and applying it to GPRO's larger groups. That's why I mentioned that F1 tends to give points to about half of the cars that finish the race.
In GPRO terms that would mean awarding points to the top 15 (or more, but 15 would be nice imo), perhaps according to the MotoGP points system:
25 - 20 - 16 - 13 - 11 - 10 - 9 - 8 - 7 - 6 - 5 - 4 - 3 - 2 - 1
Edit: personally I don't give a rat's arse about stats. Records are meant to be broken anyway. But if it is so important to some, I volunteer to convert all the old results to the new system so the previous stats can still be compared. It really isn't rocket science.
Edit 2: I don't hear anyone complaining about lap records being broken with ease thanks to the new PHA matching. So what's all the fuss about points records?
|
|
|
|
|
|
#37 Opublikowane Maj 2 2019, 02:15:23
|
Cytuj
|
I agree with Jasper. A comparison with the F1 point system is trivial because of the high similarity.
I also think a higher number of scoring people is better. For one, just fun wise: it isn't that great 80% of the managers get empty handed each race. But also because of gameplay. OBPing is extremely easy. Specially after the PHA enhanced matching change. If somebody has enough cash not to go bankrupt and the will to retain, there is no reason at all to demote with the multiple OBP chances: specialized tyres, FTs, R17 replacements or the simplest go hyperspecialized in testing/parts at a couple of races.
Related to this is the situation in Elite nowadays. Almost half of the pack are going Contis, many of them racing as bad as possible in order to grab 2 aggro points each race, and then trying to retain at a couple of specialized races. It is done not only because it's better (with GPRO's logic a driver gets better prepared by ending +30th a lot of races instead of actually pushing), but also because getting the points required to retain is easy and the system allows that. If the system was more balanced towards consistency, this situation wouldn't be happening.
Using the Moto GP system reproduced by Jasper, a manager getting a couple of 2nd-3rd places (more than enough to retain with our current system), would get 32-40 points, so a manager ending consistently around 13th would score similarly. Specialized pushing wouldn't be dead, because 3 good results, easy to achieve with Contis/BY, would almost secure retention, but at least it would be a bit more balanced.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#38 Opublikowane Maj 2 2019, 02:42:09
|
Cytuj
|
Quote ( Mikko Heikkinen @ May 2nd 2019,00:23:33 ) 100-60-30-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1- 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1- 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1- 1-1-1-1-1-1 -1-1-1-1-1 -1-1-1-1-1-1- 1-1 -1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1 -1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1- 1-1-1-1-1
Everyone gets a trophy ;)))))))))
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Jasper Coosemans @ May 2nd 2019,01:45:27 )
In GPRO terms that would mean awarding points to the top 15 (or more, but 15 would be nice imo), perhaps according to the MotoGP points system:
25 - 20 - 16 - 13 - 11 - 10 - 9 - 8 - 7 - 6 - 5 - 4 - 3 - 2 - 1
I used similar proposals and the standings will not vary significantly.
Lets put a real eample
One guy appears on the last race, and only that one and wins or.finishes in P2
With 25 points he will still be ahead of the guy that finished all 17 races in P15 (or average that).
Just take some time and run the exercise you will be surprised how little change there is.
Only gys that would be seriously affected are the smoke all seaon one race OBP. But soon they will accommodate to TBP (Two big pushes).
And changing points system makes things go strange. By comparing points you would say that Vettel and Hamilton are much better than Schumaher, Senna, Prost or Fangio simply because they have more points (maximum points are 525 this season when maximum points in Fangio's time were around 72)
Edit: Just do the math
|
|
|
|
|
|
#40 Opublikowane Maj 2 2019, 03:59:04
|
Cytuj
|
Quote ( Eduardo Sanchez Carenzo @ May 2nd 2019,03:12:02 ) Lets put a real eample
One guy appears on the last race, and only that one and wins or.finishes in P2
With 25 points he will still be ahead of the guy that finished all 17 races in P15 (or average that).
And what point are you trying to make with this completely random example? I could just as well argue that the 25 points wouldn't beat the guy that finished all 17 races in P14.
I just applied the MotoGP system to my own group last season. 25th place had 38 points; taking into account managers with negative balance, the lowest ranked retaining manager would have had 32 points. This could be achieved with 2 big pushes, but they'd have to be 2 good ones.
In the current system you see managers retaining with literally one good result. Requiring 2 results would be a distinct improvement imo. Also keeping in mind that all the retainers will be seeking such results, but there are only so many podium places available.
So this change would definitely have a real impact on retention battles, and encourage consistency as Edwin pointed out.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#41 Opublikowane Maj 2 2019, 04:07:58
|
Cytuj
|
Quote ( Eduardo Sanchez Carenzo @ May 2nd 2019,03:12:02 ) And changing points system makes things go strange. By comparing points you would say that Vettel and Hamilton are much better than Schumaher, Senna, Prost or Fangio simply because they have more points (maximum points are 525 this season when maximum points in Fangio's time were around 72)
Isn't that exactly the point Jasper is making.....changing the point systems won't make the achievements of previous managers any less important
Quote ( Eduardo Sanchez Carenzo @ May 2nd 2019,03:12:02 ) Lets put a real eample
One guy appears on the last race, and only that one and wins or.finishes in P2
With 25 points he will still be ahead of the guy that finished all 17 races in P15 (or average that).
Just take some time and run the exercise you will be surprised how little change there is.
That is a highly selective example and you know it. There are so many examples I can think of where giving points to more positions would arguably make things better.
To take a very real example,
Just last season in Elite, Maxim would have been well ahead of Theodosis in Elite and would probably have retained using this new points system, despite the fact that they were separated by as many as 9 positions using the current point system.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#42 Opublikowane Maj 2 2019, 04:09:17 (ostatnio edytowany Maj 2 2019, 04:09:36 przez Luke Frost)
|
Cytuj
|
|
If gpro was created in 2000 it would be 10-6-4-3-2-1 get with the times
|
|
|
|
|
|
#43 Opublikowane Maj 2 2019, 07:04:49
|
Cytuj
|
|
F1RIP had that points system when I joined in 2001, Luke. GPRO had their current points system when I joined way back in season 3. Thus, I'm of the ideology of "if it's not broken, don't fix it."
|
|
|
|
|
|
#44 Opublikowane Maj 2 2019, 07:19:30
|
Cytuj
|
|
Well the old saying goes like "GPRO is not F1" however nobody can deny it models itself after the mid-2000s F1 era. People who play GPRO follow F1, and people like relatability to what theyre here for...so i believe keeping up with the F1's points will keep people playing. Im sure the early champs wont feel so hard done by when their points records get broken.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#45 Opublikowane Maj 2 2019, 07:30:33
|
Cytuj
|
|
Tyres puncture: + points. ?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#46 Opublikowane Maj 2 2019, 07:30:46
|
Cytuj
|
|
You are now, maybe unconsciously, making it easier for the patent owner to claim royalty from GPRO :)
|
|
|
|
|
|
#47 Opublikowane Maj 2 2019, 08:46:10
|
Cytuj
|
|
15-12-10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1-( 1-10)
|
|
|
|
|
|
#48 Opublikowane Maj 2 2019, 09:16:17
|
Cytuj
|
Quote ( Tibor Szuromi @ May 1st 2019,23:10:49 ) Quote ( Andrzej Powalka @ May 1st 2019,23:04:38 )
42-23-16-15-8-4 (1st-6th) 1 point how much $? 42
|
|
|
|
|
|
#49 Opublikowane Maj 2 2019, 09:16:21 (ostatnio edytowany Maj 2 2019, 09:21:26 przez Tibor Szuromi)
|
Cytuj
|
Quote ( Turan Metin @ May 2nd 2019,08:46:10 ) 15-12-10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1-( 1-10) It would be very good in Rookie.
/hu/Standings.asp?Group=Rookie%20-%20150
Especially $ 50000 with point money.
Quote ( Andrzej Powalka @ May 2nd 2019,09:16:17 ) 42 I'm talking about point money. (Points money)
|
|
|
|
|
|
#50 Opublikowane Maj 2 2019, 09:35:46
|
Cytuj
|
Quote ( Richard Hylands @ May 1st 2019,21:51:29 )
I would like to see the non-point scoring positions better reflect a Manager's season, though. The idea that a single 9th place result is better than seventeen 10th place results is mind boggling at best.
No further points are required but why not institute a system where you add the results together to determine a Manager's position.
9-9-10= 28
9-15-11= 35
This would make the entire season much more interesting in it's entirety rather than Managers focusing on a single result or two hoping for retention.
I like this. The whole point of my suggestion was for the points to be more representative of the season
|
|
|
|
|
|
#51 Opublikowane Maj 2 2019, 09:50:07
|
Cytuj
|
José!
The pursuit is commendable. However, this is already a not fleshy bone.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#52 Opublikowane Maj 2 2019, 09:55:56
|
Cytuj
|
I would like to see a points system introduced for crap suggestions.
Given that this one has been offered, by some accounts, 782 times before it would score a maximum 25!
|
|
|
|
|
|
What changes do people expect would arise from changing how the points handed out?
Just on a quick look. Taking the F1 pts system as it was until 2018 and applying it to elite s69.
The position 26th - 40th remain completely unchanged vs the current Gpro system.
So, again, what are people actually expecting a points system change will, well, change/fix?
The only real change noticed is the applicable bonuses from points scored will be higher.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#54 Opublikowane Maj 2 2019, 10:54:55
|
Cytuj
|
Quote ( MG van Rensburg @ May 2nd 2019,10:51:48 ) So, again, what are people actually expecting a points system change will, well change? Nothing. They're just bored. I think.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#55 Opublikowane Maj 2 2019, 11:43:54
|
Cytuj
|
|
Maybe if you read the posts in this topic you wouldn't have to ask questions for which the answers are already there.
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Jasper Coosemans @ May 2nd 2019,11:43:54 ) Maybe if you read the posts in this topic you wouldn't have to ask questions for which the answers are already there.
Ok, let me rephrase then, my apologies.
Other than trying to dictate to everyone to play the game 1 specific way and eliminate OBP approach to retentions etc, what change are these people who want a system change expecting?
|
|
|
|
|
|
#57 Opublikowane Maj 2 2019, 12:37:33
|
Cytuj
|
|
This reminds me of the "what have the Romans ever done for us?" sketch in Monty Python's Life of Brian.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#58 Opublikowane Maj 2 2019, 13:01:54
|
Cytuj
|
Since promotion and relegation is not a part of "real F1" but yet such a huge part of this game, I think that is the real issue that needs to be fixed.
I think the points system works fine for promotion and managers in the upper half of the table. However, the problem lies in the lower half of the table among all the 0-pointers fighting to avoid relegation, and the systems as it is encourages some very strange tactics.
I totally agree with Jasper, it is ridiculous that one good result leads to retention under the current rules and scoring system.
Sometimes I think a Nascar-oriented points system would be more fair for the mediocre managers like me who try to retain :)
|
|
|
|
|
|
#59 Opublikowane Maj 2 2019, 14:49:54
|
Cytuj
|
Quote ( Roland Jakobsson @ May 2nd 2019,13:01:54 ) Since promotion and relegation is not a part of "real F1" but yet such a huge part of this game, I think that is the real issue that needs to be fixed.
I think the points system works fine for promotion and managers in the upper half of the table. However, the problem lies in the lower half of the table among all the 0-pointers fighting to avoid relegation, and the systems as it is encourages some very strange tactics.
I totally agree with Jasper, it is ridiculous that one good result leads to retention under the current rules and scoring system.
Sometimes I think a Nascar-oriented points system would be more fair for the mediocre managers like me who try to retain :)
This is my frustration when I have gotten promoted to higher levels is a fight to stay out of the relegation zone for more than a season in order to get better at the game.
While I understand the reasoning behind the rookie levels it is hard to develop a car and program when you get reset all the time if you don't promote, not to mention that you also lose out on prize money you earn being part of a team.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#60 Opublikowane Maj 2 2019, 15:10:59 (ostatnio edytowany Maj 2 2019, 15:40:20 przez Edwin Silva)
|
Cytuj
|
Quote ( MG van Rensburg @ May 2nd 2019,12:27:41 ) Other than trying to dictate to everyone to play the game 1 specific way and eliminate OBP approach to retentions etc, what change are these people who want a system change expecting?
Big straw-man, MG. Don't go there. Once I said frontrunners in Elite had competitive advantages, and it turned out I was supposedly wanting to destroy Elite...
OBP is extremely easy now. If you have some cash to spare and the will to retain, something must be going extremely wrong if you are unable to retain. This is not meant as an insult, but the game offers plenty of mechanics performance wise (wear effect on pace, FTs, specialized tyres, PHA matching) and retention system wise (current scoring system where 1 single good result is almost always enough to retain), so succeeding at OBPing is super easy.
I wouldn't propose a Nascar based system, tho, because it favors consistency too much and penalizes DNFing. But somewhere in between is reasonable to me. The MotoGP mentioned by Jasper far from kills OBPing. A couple of good results are enough to retain, and to me 2 good results plus 15 whatever (usually very bad) is very OBP friendly to me already. Specially since, come on, if you can't excel twice with BY/Contis in a season, something awful is going on with your package.
|
|
English
Deutsch
Español
Română
Italiano
Português
Português
Français
Русский
Български
Македонски
Српски
Nederlands
Vlaams
Suomi
Lietuvių
Čeština
Magyar
Eesti keel
Slovenčina
Türkçe
Shqip
Ελληνικά
Hrvatski
Bahasa Melayu
Dansk
Pirate
