| Autor |
Tópico: [F1] 2019 German Grand Prix |
77 respostas
|
|
|
|
#31 colocada 28 Jul 2019, 18:04:25
|
Citar
|
Quote ( Niek Nijboer @ July 28th 2019,16:21:18 ) Only 5 second time penalty for Hamilton is a complete joke! He cut the pitlane entry and have a huge time advantage to be able to pit instead of driving with a damaged car for another complete lap..
What time advantage? The safety car was out...
|
|
|
|
|
|
#32 colocada 28 Jul 2019, 18:12:17
|
Citar
|
Torpedo in podium!! What a race
|
|
|
|
Singular race. A bit of fun but too much randomness for my style.
Very happy for Verstappen. He have been consistent this year.
EDIT: Didn't understand why Mercedes didn't gamble with Hamilton on slics like Stroll for example. He would be last that time but with a lot piting after the safety car he would be in a good position and already without the 5 secs penalty.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#34 colocada 28 Jul 2019, 18:40:53
|
Citar
|
Quote ( Jasper Coosemans @ July 28th 2019,18:04:25 )
<!-- GPRO300x250 -->
Quote ( Niek Nijboer @ July 28th 2019,16:21:18 )
Only 5 second time penalty for Hamilton is a complete joke! He cut the pitlane entry and have a huge time advantage to be able to pit instead of driving with a damaged car for another complete lap..
What time advantage? The safety car was out...
driving with a broken car for another lap on SC and then going in to the pitlane or going direct in the Pitlane and after that continue with a working car again.. according to me a huge time advantage.
SC doesn't matter in this case! So 5 second penalty is a complete joke!
|
|
|
|
|
|
#35 colocada 28 Jul 2019, 18:52:59
|
Citar
|
SUPER-VETTEEEEEEEEEL!!
:-D
|
|
|
|
|
|
#36 colocada 28 Jul 2019, 19:11:07
|
Citar
|
Great race.
We should have more rain races, the strenght of the cars has less influence and driver qualities are making the difference.
Max on top !! 🏆
|
|
|
|
|
|
#37 colocada 28 Jul 2019, 19:14:29
|
Citar
|
Quote ( Niek Nijboer @ July 28th 2019,18:40:53 ) driving with a broken car for another lap on SC and then going in to the pitlane or going direct in the Pitlane and after that continue with a working car again.. according to me a huge time advantage.
SC doesn't matter in this case! So 5 second penalty is a complete joke!
OK, so your argument is he should have continued for another lap with a broken car spreading debris on track, creating a hazard for all drivers. Really?
|
|
|
|
|
|
#38 colocada 28 Jul 2019, 19:19:49
|
Citar
|
Quote ( Jasper Coosemans @ July 28th 2019,19:14:29 ) Quote ( Niek Nijboer @ July 28th 2019,18:40:53 )
driving with a broken car for another lap on SC and then going in to the pitlane or going direct in the Pitlane and after that continue with a working car again.. according to me a huge time advantage.
SC doesn't matter in this case! So 5 second penalty is a complete joke!
OK, so your argument is he should have continued for another lap with a broken car spreading debris on track, creating a hazard for all drivers. Really?
He should have indeed, because these are the rules. He was to late to enter the pitlane, so he had to make the entire lap before entering the pitlane. What's next turning around on the track ?
|
|
|
|
|
|
#39 colocada 28 Jul 2019, 19:56:04
|
Citar
|
Quote ( Jasper Coosemans @ July 28th 2019,19:14:29 ) Quote ( Niek Nijboer @ July 28th 2019,18:40:53 )
driving with a broken car for another lap on SC and then going in to the pitlane or going direct in the Pitlane and after that continue with a working car again.. according to me a huge time advantage.
SC doesn't matter in this case! So 5 second penalty is a complete joke!
OK, so your argument is he should have continued for another lap with a broken car spreading debris on track, creating a hazard for all drivers. Really?
No I am saying he should have been given more than just a 5 second penalty.. drive through penalty for example..
|
|
|
|
|
|
#40 colocada 28 Jul 2019, 20:39:37
|
Citar
|
Quote ( Damien Heuvel @ July 28th 2019,19:19:49 ) He should have indeed, because these are the rules. He was to late to enter the pitlane, so he had to make the entire lap before entering the pitlane. What's next turning around on the track ?
Sorry but that is simply ridiculous. He had a damaged car, he took the safest course of action which was to return to the pits at the first opportunity. Not doing so would be a bigger offence. What he did was cross a line you're not supposed to cross, boo-hoo.
How about Leclerc's unsafe release? He didn't just gain time, he gained 1 or 2 positions. This has to be the first time in history a team is given a financial penalty for a racing incident. If that's not a million dollars, it's the cheapest position an F1 team ever gained...
|
|
|
|
|
|
#41 colocada 28 Jul 2019, 20:43:49
|
Citar
|
Realistically Hamilton did the only thing that made sense. Going around 1 more lap, potentially dropping debris, driving unsafely with a damaged car, he would've only put himself and other drivers at risk. And had he tried to go around the bollard, that would be going backwards on an F1 circuit, which is an instant disqualification.
There is nothing better he could've done, so the penalty imo was a bit stupid. It's not about him potentially gaining an advantage, it's about literally every other option being worse for everyone.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#42 colocada 28 Jul 2019, 20:51:33
|
Citar
|
Well, after such an awful qualifications session for the Ferrari team, and with Vettel starting at a super bad 20th place on the starting grid, he at least had a race and final result to put a smile back on his face. Great job!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
#43 colocada 28 Jul 2019, 21:22:38
|
Citar
|
2 free points for Hamilton... after Alfas were penalized
|
|
|
|
|
|
#44 colocada 28 Jul 2019, 21:24:07
|
Citar
|
Quote ( Marcelo Ascencio @ July 28th 2019,21:22:38 ) 2 free points for Hamilton... after Alfas were penalized
More importantly 1 point for Kubica :-)
|
|
|
|
|
|
#45 colocada 28 Jul 2019, 21:34:20
|
Citar
|
This race has potential to become an all-time classic, I'm also thrilled for Kubica's first point
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#46 colocada 28 Jul 2019, 21:50:57
|
Citar
|
Quote ( Marcelo Ascencio @ July 28th 2019,21:22:38 ) 2 free points for Hamilton... after Alfas were penalized
What about the investigation for driving very slow behind the SC??
|
|
|
|
|
|
#47 colocada 28 Jul 2019, 22:00:44
|
Citar
|
F1.com:
The stewards found the torque in the clutch at the start did not match the torque demand as the driver released the clutch within the specified 70 millisecond maximum period. This time was measured at approximately 300 milliseconds.
They compared this breach to that of a false start with a potential advantage and therefore opted to give both drivers a 10-second stop-and-go penalty, which equates to 30 seconds added to each of their race times.
10 second stop and go penalty is just 10 seconds and not 30 seconds. This is so weird. If you get a penalty during the race the time will be added to your stop, but if you haven't to take a stop anymore the time (5 or 10 seconds) will be added to the final result and not the 5 or 10 seconds plus the pitlane time)
This penalty makes the 5 second penalty for Hamilton even more ridiculous. Hamilton had a massive advantage by cutting the pitlane entry. That weights much heavier than a potential advantage the Alfa romeos might had.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#48 colocada 28 Jul 2019, 22:05:49
|
Citar
|
Quote ( Jasper Coosemans @ July 28th 2019,20:39:37 ) Sorry but that is simply ridiculous. He had a damaged car, he took the safest course of action which was to return to the pits at the first opportunity. Not doing so would be a bigger offence. What he did was cross a line you're not supposed to cross, boo-hoo.
So king Hamilton is allowed to do everything according to your read. He made a mistake by getting of the circuit. Damaged his car and have to take the consequences for it. Normally that would have been driving his damaged car for another lap, with the consequences that he might damage his car. Yes this is part of racing. If this was happened 5 meters further there was no other options. Now he crosses the grass and enter the pitlane he shouldn't do. He didn't take the safest course, he took the best course for him. He could have droven easily on the circuit for another lap, as you mentoined before if was already under SC. boo-hoo!
|
|
|
|
|
|
#49 colocada 28 Jul 2019, 22:14:15
|
Citar
|
Quote ( Niek Nijboer @ July 28th 2019,21:50:57 ) What about the investigation for driving very slow behind the SC??
That was a fault in the timing system.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#50 colocada 28 Jul 2019, 22:22:45
|
Citar
|
Quote ( Niek Nijboer @ July 28th 2019,22:05:49 ) So king Hamilton is allowed to do everything according to your read.
No, I think he received the correct penalty for crossing a line.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#51 colocada 28 Jul 2019, 22:37:13
|
Citar
|
Quote ( Jasper Coosemans @ July 28th 2019,22:22:45 ) Quote ( Niek Nijboer @ July 28th 2019,22:05:49 )
So king Hamilton is allowed to do everything according to your read.
No, I think he received the correct penalty for crossing a line.
It was more then crossing a line of course. He drove true the grass to reach the pitlane in a totaly incorrect way.
If he would have raced the entire lap, he wouldn't have score those two WC points. So he did benefit of it. Therefore giving him a penalty of just five seconds wasn't enough. IMHO.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#52 colocada 28 Jul 2019, 22:50:31
|
Citar
|
Quote ( Upeo Unaozidi @ July 28th 2019,22:37:13 ) If he would have raced the entire lap, he wouldn't have score those two WC points.
Why not? He was dead last at some point and crossed the line in 11th. If he'd done his stop one lap later, would he have been even more last than last? :p
|
|
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Jasper Coosemans @ July 28th 2019,22:50:31 ) Quote ( Upeo Unaozidi @ July 28th 2019,22:37:13 )
If he would have raced the entire lap, he wouldn't have score those two WC points.
Why not? He was dead last at some point and crossed the line in 11th. If he'd done his stop one lap later, would he have been even more last than last? :p
Wrong his time loss would have been a lot bigger if he had to do that one extra full lap, and therefore he would have finished behind the both Williams. Which would have resulted in a 11th position after the penalty of both Alfa's.
His advantage on the Williams cars was just 5 and 7 seconds now, he would never have had that advantage if he had done the lap that he should have done.
So two extra FREE points for Hamilton, is my conclusion.
But we can always agree to disagree. ;)
|
|
|
|
|
|
#54 colocada 28 Jul 2019, 23:28:44
|
Citar
|
Quote ( Jasper Coosemans @ July 28th 2019,22:50:31 ) Quote ( Upeo Unaozidi @ July 28th 2019,22:37:13 )
If he would have raced the entire lap, he wouldn't have score those two WC points.
Why not? He was dead last at some point and crossed the line in 11th. If he'd done his stop one lap later, would he have been even more last than last? :p
I agree that driving round for another lap would not have been sensible but would have been necessary if he had been 100 metres further down the track, which would have meant either driving the lap or parking up,,
My view is the penalty did not fit the crime.... a drive thru would have been more appropriate to counteract the benefit he gained by breaking the rules.
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Upeo Unaozidi @ July 28th 2019,23:16:37 ) Wrong his time loss would have been a lot bigger if he had to do that one extra full lap, and therefore he would have finished behind the both Williams. Which would have resulted in a 11th position after the penalty of both Alfa's.
His advantage on the Williams cars was just 5 and 7 seconds now, he would never have had that advantage if he had done the lap that he should have done.
So two extra FREE points for Hamilton, is my conclusion.
But we can always agree to disagree. ;)
This whole incident happened under Safety Car. If he'd done the lap with a damaged car, he would have pitted, pit crew would have been ready so his stop wouldn't have lasted 30 seconds, and he would have rejoined in I don't know what position but he would be behind the safety car like everyone else.
So there would be no time loss, only a loss of positions (although even that is questionable because he would have saved 20 seconds on the pitstop itself).
How can you talk about a time loss in the middle of the race and apply it to the final results, when there have been 2 SC periods after that time? Even if he was a minute behind, he would have rejoined the pack thanks to those safety cars...
|
|
|
|
|
|
#56 colocada 28 Jul 2019, 23:43:01
|
Citar
|
Quote ( Niek Nijboer @ July 28th 2019,22:00:44 ) 10 second stop and go penalty is just 10 seconds and not 30 seconds.
You might want to take a moment to think about that one. A 10 second stop-go has never been and will never be just 10 seconds.
Quote ( Niek Nijboer @ July 28th 2019,22:05:49 ) Damaged his car and have to take the consequences for it. Normally that would have been driving his damaged car for another lap, with the consequences that he might damage his car. Yes this is part of racing. If this was happened 5 meters further there was no other options. Now he crosses the grass and enter the pitlane he shouldn't do. He didn't take the safest course, he took the best course for him.
Oh stop it - your bias is showing. If you were really concerned about safety, you would have addressed what Jasper and Josh both pointed out - that forcing Hamilton to take another lap with a damaged car comes with its own safety concerns. Judging from your "King Hamilton" comment, I would suggest your interests have nothing to do with safety, but with a petty dislike of Hamilton.
The safest course of action for everyone involved was obviously to bring a damaged car immediately into the pits - it's incredible that anyone would take such issue with this.
Yes, he broke a rule - and he was punished. It was a minor infraction for a fairly insignificant rule - so 5 seconds is fine - or maybe it should have been 10 seconds, who knows, it was literally introduced 72 hours ago and we have no precedent.
Not to mention that his immediate pit stop cost him upwards of 50 seconds due to his crew being comically unprepared. This is an ideal 'punishment' if ever I saw one.
A similar scenario for you, or everyone to consider is this: If a driver gets a puncture and is on his way back to the pits (example: Alonso at Baku 2018), should they be penalised for straight-lining chicanes, and short-cutting corners? If so, why/why not.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#57 colocada 29 Jul 2019, 00:45:51
|
Citar
|
What was that about the F in FIA standing for Ferrari?
|
|
|
|
|
|
#58 colocada 29 Jul 2019, 00:59:07
|
Citar
|
Quote ( Jasper Coosemans @ July 28th 2019,23:29:58 ) Quote ( Upeo Unaozidi @ July 28th 2019,23:16:37 )
Wrong his time loss would have been a lot bigger if he had to do that one extra full lap, and therefore he would have finished behind the both Williams. Which would have resulted in a 11th position after the penalty of both Alfa's.
His advantage on the Williams cars was just 5 and 7 seconds now, he would never have had that advantage if he had done the lap that he should have done.
So two extra FREE points for Hamilton, is my conclusion.
But we can always agree to disagree. ;)
This whole incident happened under Safety Car. If he'd done the lap with a damaged car, he would have pitted, pit crew would have been ready so his stop wouldn't have lasted 30 seconds, and he would have rejoined in I don't know what position but he would be behind the safety car like everyone else.
So there would be no time loss, only a loss of positions (although even that is questionable because he would have saved 20 seconds on the pitstop itself).
How can you talk about a time loss in the middle of the race and apply it to the final results, when there have been 2 SC periods after that time? Even if he was a minute behind, he would have rejoined the pack thanks to those safety cars...
"If he'd done the lap with a damaged car, he would have pitted ….."
Would he ? Well we will never know, big chance that he would have parked his car somewhere along the track.
And doing the lap without frontwing would probably have harmed his car a lot more. So I still don't share your opinion why it was okay to enter the pit. The rules are the same for everybody, and this was not the first time that he messed up in Hockenheim. Remember 2018 where he didn't get a penalty for messing up in the pitlane ?
|
|
|
|
Quote ( Daniel Mason @ July 29th 2019,00:45:51 ) What was that about the F in FIA standing for Ferrari?
Fools that fluke into a podium.
Edit: That said, Leclerc is having a good season, German and Bahraini Grands Prix aside.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#60 colocada 29 Jul 2019, 11:53:37
|
Citar
|
i am new here , always finshing last .....but hey , i have fun , it was a great race and yes i think hamilton should have given a stop and go ....but in the end ....it was a great race and Vettel was super , and max also ( just 20 years old ) , sometimes i find hamilton a bit like a spoilt child ...but i have no bias against him .... let's all see in spa , best circuit in the world ( and yes i am biased ) i hope it rains on the half of the circuit then :)
have a nice day
|
|
English
Deutsch
Español
Română
Italiano
Português
Français
Polski
Русский
Български
Македонски
Српски
Nederlands
Vlaams
Suomi
Lietuvių
Čeština
Magyar
Eesti keel
Slovenčina
Türkçe
Shqip
Ελληνικά
Hrvatski
Bahasa Melayu
Dansk
Pirate
