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Subiect: [F1] 2020 season |
708 replici
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Vettel is gone guys. He's an incredibly talented driver, but he just can't drive the current spec F1 cars.
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Vetted in a mid-field car is not a good mix. He has proved that overtaking isn't his best strengths. If Ferrari don't improve their car quick, i feel like he will continue to prove it this season.
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I disagree. With a proper car he has shown that he can overtake (against Bottas in Silverstone 2018 for example, but also in other situations) and can go wheel-to-wheel. But he needs a stable rear or else he has no confidence and screws up.
If you watch his onboards against Leclerc's in Austria, he struggles so much more with the way the car goes, constantly having to correct, nearly spinning, locking up etc. Leclerc can either cope with that better, or his car was setup differently, as he usually didn't seem bothered.
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I don't see Vettel having room anywhere unless he opts for a drive at Alfa or Williams. Does he really fancy that? Moreover, do they even fancy him? Sure, great press...but he's at the knackers yard when it comes to sitting behind the cockpit. Its sad to say, but I agree with others here, its over. He can probably look forward to a career wind down in sports cars.
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That's why I'm not too mad at Renault for wasting a seat on Alonso, at least Ferrari had the foresight to take Vettel round the back of the garage and shoot him and put him out of his misery. Seb is still one of the best drivers the sport has ever seen. He should leave us all with that memory imo
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Quote ( Tim Wagner @ July 10th 2020,17:20:42 ) he struggles so much more with the way the car goes, constantly having to correct, nearly spinning, locking up etc. Leclerc can either cope with that better, or his car was setup differently, as he usually didn't seem bothered.
I do agree with that. I think Vettel is only comfortable tbh when he has all the grip that he needs. When he has that, he is a superb driver without question. Thing is, he will probably look back on his career with even more fondness for Adrian Newey than when he left cos for sure he gave hima ll the tools he needed to win those championships in the manner that the did. Driving on the rails, he is a match for any driver, including Hamilton. The trouble is, he's spent 3 years now fighting against the car. Like you say, Leclerc just seems to have been able to deal with it better. I do feel for Seb cos on his day I don't think anyone denies his talent, but sadly its just getting drowned out by both not having the equipment he needs to perform and consequently the mistakes he's making are just more and more apparent and erroneous.
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Another masterclass from Hamilton on wet conditions.
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So Leclerc does a Vettel now or what? :D
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Nope, just a "low drag" config mid-race update
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Stewards last weekend: Hamilton was on the inside of Albon and wasn't going to keep the place so he should have backed off more, it's a penalty.
Stewards this weekend: Stroll tries to pass Ricciardo from a mile behind, never makes the corner, goes off track, forces Ricciardo to go off track too, claims the position anyway, and causes Ricciardo to lose a place to Norris as well, but hey, that's racing!
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Quote ( Jasper Coosemans @ July 12th 2020,18:01:44 ) Ricciardo to lose a place to Norris
Sounds "fair" to me. Except next year when will make no difference. :-)
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Quote ( Jasper Coosemans @ July 12th 2020,18:01:44 ) Stewards last weekend: Hamilton was on the inside of Albon and wasn't going to keep the place so he should have backed off more, it's a penalty.
Stewards this weekend: Stroll tries to pass Ricciardo from a mile behind, never makes the corner, goes off track, forces Ricciardo to go off track too, claims the position anyway, and causes Ricciardo to lose a place to Norris as well, but hey, that's racing!
Yup somehow Stroll got away with that. Then again, these same stewards made a u-turn on the Hamilton qualifying incident. Consistency at it's finest. Now I'm curious to see how they will handle Renault's protest against those pink Mercs.
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Another incident for Albon going around the outside... I dunno... Not quite convinced can keep pointing the ol' finger at the person on the inside.
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Albon is becoming a crybaby however most of the grid is like this now.
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Quote ( Luke Frost @ July 13th 2020,12:03:17 ) Albon is becoming a crybaby however most of the grid is like this now.
Whatever happened to the ol' adage about going around the outside? If you willing to take the risk, you willing to accept the conseqences? What happened to racing being racing?
Its all whining and pointing fingers all the damn time.
Same with Renault... seriously now... that Merc has been on the grid for years now showing everybody that they should be following the Merc approach example instead of Ferrari... Not RP's fault they the only folks who've decided to bin their ego's and accept the Merc design is just a better approach, especially when you using Merc power.
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Quote ( Luke Frost @ July 13th 2020,12:03:17 ) Albon is becoming a crybaby however most of the grid is like this now.
If noone tried to defend their position or try to go around the outside or even attempt an overtake, it would be very boring
The new kids on the block are bringing such a fresh look to F1 which was hugely lacking. Norris, Albon and Verstappen have all shown that they are nitty gritty enough to fight it with the big boys, I can imagine russell will do the same, and Ricciardo has shown it time and time again!
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Quote ( Kyle Morris @ July 13th 2020,12:27:32 ) Quote ( Luke Frost @ July 13th 2020,12:03:17 )
Albon is becoming a crybaby however most of the grid is like this now.
If noone tried to defend their position or try to go around the outside or even attempt an overtake, it would be very boring
The new kids on the block are bringing such a fresh look to F1 which was hugely lacking. Norris, Albon and Verstappen have all shown that they are nitty gritty enough to fight it with the big boys, I can imagine russell will do the same, and Ricciardo has shown it time and time again!
Its the whining when it doesn't work out that bothers me... There is risk to going around the outside... stop blaming the bloke on the inside is all. Its suppose to be racing and fighting for the position, not a 'who can give away' the most kindly.
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Are we still debating last week? If anything it was a real close one that could have gone either way. While Albon clearly was in front, and as per rule Hamilton should have given up on the spot, question is only was he able to do so ... Others have proven last week as well as this week, that is very well doable if both drivers are aware of the situation. As you cannot tell me that HAM was not aware of ALB being on the outside, I believe this one now is tilting perspective against HAM ... So in my mind the only question remaining, would be the one where it though to be a clever move to make by ALB? I guess, I can only refer to the above and as no other overtake in corner 4 had the same or similar result, I would argue this whole discussion in now at least 60% against HAM. I also found a comment out of the RB corner that stated later last week, that Albon's engine failure in the end was due to the gravel scoped up on that incident which would indicate that without that shunt he would have finished the race either in 1st or 2nd ...
However, a week has past another GP was driven, so I would suggest to have a look at that. like:
Quote ( Jasper Coosemans @ July 12th 2020,18:01:44 ) Stewards last weekend: Hamilton was on the inside of Albon and wasn't going to keep the place so he should have backed off more, it's a penalty.
Stewards this weekend: Stroll tries to pass Ricciardo from a mile behind, never makes the corner, goes off track, forces Ricciardo to go off track too, claims the position anyway, and causes Ricciardo to lose a place to Norris as well, but hey, that's racing!
Now, not only is he our new Champ for the season, Jasper is fully correct here, in my pov at least. If only Stroll would have been able to stay on the black stuff, I would argue it's his win. However, as he himself ended up in the run-off area, one could argue he was out of control, and RIC could only avoid the crash by also running wide. If anything STR should have given up the position to RIC. The fact that NOR overtook them both here is unfortunate to RIC, but has nothing to do with NOR, he was just in the right place at the right time.
But even before that, there was the Ferrari shunt. I assume this can only be contributed to LEC being to eager to soon. While VET up until this weekend was the one being skinned in the media, LEC "cleverly diverted" that ... It was a plain and stupid move, not helping Ferrari in so many ways ...
But how come LEC was able to race anyway? Apparently he went back to Monaco, and unlike BOT (also debatable but let's stick to this one first), he went outside his bubble as per FIA's 'Rona Regulations ... Worst case scenario; he's affected, so his box will become infected, thus the other end of the garage as well. It's not unlikely that in the end the whole or at least the best part of the paddock gets it, and then what ...? Well, no F1 for sure, for some time. As this big FIA body seeks to set examples, I will argue that LEC should have been quarantined for two weeks for his mistake. Youthful ignorant bliss cannot be referred to here due to the possible consequences and a $5-10000 fine, well that would be laughable again ...
And then the Pink Panthers, the question is not about having copied the design. The question they are now after is the intellectual property, basically questioning in how far the RP is actually developed by them and/or how much was Mercedes involved. If there is any Merc. involvement discovered, then RP will be in trouble ...
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Quote ( Niels Van Heijster @ July 13th 2020,13:43:45 ) If only Stroll would have been able to stay on the black stuff, I would argue it's his win. However, as he himself ended up in the run-off area, one could argue he was out of control, and RIC could only avoid the crash by also running wide. If anything STR should have given up the position to RIC. The fact that NOR overtook them both here is unfortunate to RIC, but has nothing to do with NOR, he was just in the right place at the right time.
I can't be sure if it was in the same turn but there was a handful of overtake attempts from the outside that the overtaker ended up outside the track and the inside car also touching the outer kerd. It would be a never ending who-takes-penalty-and-who-does-not.
I didn't see the last week event but in this race it was much like this in a few situations.
As for Lando, he would have overtaken them anyway.
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Quote ( Zé Pedro Paula @ July 13th 2020,17:08:45 ) Quote ( Niels Van Heijster @ July 13th 2020,13:43:45 )
If only Stroll would have been able to stay on the black stuff, I would argue it's his win. However, as he himself ended up in the run-off area, one could argue he was out of control, and RIC could only avoid the crash by also running wide. If anything STR should have given up the position to RIC. The fact that NOR overtook them both here is unfortunate to RIC, but has nothing to do with NOR, he was just in the right place at the right time.
I can't be sure if it was in the same turn but there was a handful of overtake attempts from the outside that the overtaker ended up outside the track and the inside car also touching the outer kerd. It would be a never ending who-takes-penalty-and-who-does-not.
I didn't see the last week event but in this race it was much like this in a few situations.
As for Lando, he would have overtaken them anyway.
The thingy between STR and RIC was in turn 3. I presume most of the overtaking manoeuvres you are referring to are those in turn 4 ...
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There is just no consistency in stewarding. I don't believe consequences should define punishments, acts should. The stewards let Leclerc a free pass just because it ended both their races.
The Stroll incident gets ignored because it's not a battle for the top places. I'm sure if it was Hamilton v Verstappen, either of them would be punished. It's just lame.
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Quote ( Sudeep Pednekar @ July 13th 2020,17:53:34 ) The stewards let Leclerc a free pass just because it ended both their races.
I think the fact that they are from the same team played a bigger part in the decision, but I do agree with you.
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Or more the fact they are from a certain team than just the same team :)
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Are you trying to insinuate that the Ferrari International Assistance let them off easy? :P
Leclerc still should have been penalised one way or another. He ruined the race for someone else, that should be an easy penalty of some sorts, no matter if his own race had ended. But if you think back, Vettel never got a penalty for their incident in Brazil. So it might be because they are who they are. Just pay them off like they did for the whole engine inspection drama and they get away easy yet again.
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Well they probably would have given him a time penalty for that incident ...... but that would be a little overkill no?
In both incidents (brazil and this weekend) they should have received penalty points on their license.
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Did Ocon and Perez receive penalty points for their numerous incidents?
Don't remember but if they did, then it would be only fair to give penalty points to the Ferrari drivers too.
Personally, I think teams should be allowed to sort out their own matters rather than having the FIA sort it out for them.
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Quote ( Sudeep Pednekar @ July 13th 2020,17:53:34 )
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There is just no consistency in stewarding. I don't believe consequences should define punishments, acts should. The stewards let Leclerc a free pass just because it ended both their races.
The Stroll incident gets ignored because it's not a battle for the top places. I'm sure if it was Hamilton v Verstappen, either of them would be punished. It's just lame.
Agreed. This is my issue with how things seem to always play out. What is considered good for the goose must be accepted good for the gander and actions taken must be based on behaviour not results. Penalties and punishment cannot be measured by the end result, they must be measured by the action and only the action for it is the action that is either within our against the rules, not the result.
Also, Albon concerns me a little, if he continues the way he's going, with the habit of contact going around the outside and whatnot, surely its time to start considering perhaps he's being a little overzealous and somewhat taking advantage of a potentially not quite balanced rule.
Surely, although no race was affected, with there being contact, regardless of end result, what happened was the same, surely then, same treatment as first race? And if driver's going around the outside are going to become such a protected species, are we not just opening pandora's box, just a little?
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Quote ( Kashvinder Mann @ July 14th 2020,08:49:52 ) Are you trying to insinuate that the Ferrari International Assistance let them off easy? :P
Leclerc still should have been penalised one way or another. He ruined the race for someone else, that should be an easy penalty of some sorts, no matter if his own race had ended. But if you think back, Vettel never got a penalty for their incident in Brazil. So it might be because they are who they are. Just pay them off like they did for the whole engine inspection drama and they get away easy yet again.
Team internal accident should not be extra punished... I'm sure they had some talk about this...
Hamilton and Rossberg crashed also out both and did not get punished(I'm sure there are much more examples).
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Vettel rumoured to be going to Racing Point under the Aston Martin rebrand. Buxton thinks it will be to replace Stroll since his father will no longer own the whole company. Either that or he's a massive Checo fan.
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Quote ( Cameron Halsall @ July 16th 2020,15:38:47 ) Vettel rumoured to be going to Racing Point under the Aston Martin rebrand. Buxton thinks it will be to replace Stroll since his father will no longer own the whole company. Either that or he's a massive Checo fan.
Is Checo's contract secure? I wouldn't be surprised to see him shifting to Ferrari to be a solid older #2 to Leclerc.
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