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Тема: Make team-mates data visible (by choice) |
43 одговора
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Quote ( Vladimir Valis @ March 18th 2021,22:06:53 ) No, because you're being misleading with the "point behind" a suggestion that's not yours.
I was talking about the premise behind the suggestion
Quote ( Chris Shaw @ March 17th 2021,19:29:44 ) Most teams post this data anyway,
Quote ( Vladimir Valis @ March 18th 2021,20:55:38 ) OP stated clearly that "most teams post this data anyway"
How can you take that as a factual statement ?
Quote ( Mikko Heikkinen @ March 18th 2021,21:04:21 ) "most teams don't post this data anyway"
And how can you say that's just an opinion ?
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Quote ( Vladimir Valis @ March 18th 2021,22:06:53 ) No, because you're being misleading with the "point behind" a suggestion that's not yours. Only Chris knows the real point behind it because it was his suggestion, I don't think it's that hard to understand.
And now my personal reasons are presented thus:
1. Sometimes I just want to check something trivial real quick, like the part levels of my team mates. I can hope they post that data, I can wait until 10 minutes before the race for that, but it might not come. That doesn't mean that the team is "passive", it means we have better things to do in our spare time than post lines of data for a computer game
2. I intend to automate the collection and use it to benefit my team by bringing better consistency, and reduced effort, allowing more time for analysis of the data afterwards.
My argument, Mikko, is this: is it value-added to spend time manually copying data, then manually inputting it from each manager into a database? Is it not better use of time to spend 90% of your time analysing it, and 10% collecting it? Do you find it fun to enter data into spreadsheets, if so can you cover for me at work whilst I play GPRO?
I did not know limited access can achieve this, so in this case my request is to extend this to an automatic full-team opt-in IF the manager consents AND / OR the team leader consents.
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Quote ( MG van Rensburg @ March 18th 2021,21:07:45 ) The point is how gpro has lost the meaning/understanding of being a game.
When a game becomes work, because it doesnt facilitate easy communcation and sharing of info between teammates it DOES hurt the game experience.
To deny this is to be stuck in the stone ages of multiplayer gaming. The test of gpro should be about the management skills, about how you play the game with the resources available. This insistence of oldways that as archaic as the arc now, and proven a detrimental approach to game design by many failed and successful projects since and yet the stubborness, for what?
Why make sharing data between teams 'work'. Why? What possible positive does the Gpro game experience gain. In what possible way does it market the game in a positive light in todays gaming world, TODAY, not 20 years ago, TODAY!
These are not 'perks' or challenges, they are missing elements in game design, gaping holes that are hurting the game's marketability and growth.
Happily allowing 3rd party data scraping but refusing to let teams share data... talk about a proverbial shotgun to the feet in the msg sent to the game market and new players. It just makes no sense. How can be allowing one but refusing the other make any common sense, especially considering which is the one being accepted and the other denied.
Amen brother. GPRO is meant to be a management game, instead it is a challenge of your programming and spreadsheet skills, coupled with your ability to solve college level mathematics. Do you think "Dave" the armchair F1 fan enjoys spending his evening trawling through 10 peoples car and driver stats trying to figure out the hideous tyre wear formula? This isn't a game for Dave's of the world, which is why it will never grow beyond what it is now. Funny that Vlad is sat on a gold mine but throws all the potential away.
I can say, along with many others here, I'd rather have a social life, family life, learn a new skill, eat healthy, go watch a film than spend time looking through data spotting trends. That is not a manager game, that is a career in data analysis, people get paid for that, it's called... work!
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I dont understand moral arguments in those cases tbh. "Inactive teams shouldn't be rewarded with an easier option because people should play the game like i do" is seriously not doing the game any favours. What's even wrong with people gathering just to share data if they want to?
Anyway, just my 2 cents. If people really don't want this to be implemented to prevent inactives from sharing data then why not make it a supporter feature, like only teams with 5 or more supporters can do this (or with enough treasury supporter creds)? Also, make it optional for the managers involved like it was said before. You would have to accept sharing your data to make it visible.
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Alright, time to present counter argument.
What about teams which have more than 1 team? Speaking of Viper, thats the example that pops up to my head.
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What's wrong with that?
And the game mechanics treat those teams as if they were different teams. You can't share the same in-game gpro forum with your sister teams for exemple, so you need an external forum (or discord or both) to gather everyone in the same place. Don't see how would that change.
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Quote ( André de Carvalho @ March 19th 2021,00:07:15 ) What's wrong with that?
And the game mechanics treat those teams as if they were different teams. You can't share the same in-game gpro forum with your sister teams for exemple, so you need an external forum (or discord or both) to gather everyone in the same place. Don't see how would that change.
Meh you are right i guess.
Im not on either side, im neutral by the way, but i do have the feeling this could go sideways if it is implemented.
Just a hunch though
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Quote ( Ricardo Antunes @ March 19th 2021,00:02:28 ) Alright, time to present counter argument.
What about teams which have more than 1 team? Speaking of Viper, thats the example that pops up to my head.
That is proof the concept of the game is broken, that to gain an advantage you create extra teams to gather more data. There are so many compromises in GPRO because of the importance of data, for example real racing teams have two cars not one, but you cant do that in gpro without making it easy to compare what happened on each car in the race.
And my favorite ridiculous argument is that time I tried suggesting we should be able to see which part of the car a sponsor is on. Honestly, we've reached the level where "it reveals too much data" outweighs "ITS COMMON BLOODY SENSE"...
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I've decided I don't like purple.
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Quote ( Stuart Foster @ March 19th 2021,00:13:29 ) I've decided I don't like purple.
OUTRAGEOUS!
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Quote ( Stuart Foster @ March 19th 2021,00:13:29 ) I've decided I don't like purple.
Careful in this world this could tag you as a misogenic white male (with certain degrre a confidence we could also add Anglo Saxon and Protestant to make you a full W.A.S.P.), that is against feminism. :p
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Love this idea. Please implement it! 😍
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Quote ( Mikko Heikkinen @ March 18th 2021,23:17:04 ) I was talking about the premise behind the suggestion
That's not how it sounded in the original message but I am sorry if there was a misinterpretation on my side.
I totally agree with Chris reasons and I also think this is a great question:
Quote ( Chris Shaw @ March 18th 2021,23:45:36 ) Is it not better use of time to spend 90% of your time analysing it, and 10% collecting it?
I have nothing else to add for now, I already posted my own team experience (which you Mikko decided to completely ignore) and I made my opinion clear.
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To me, it boils down to consistency of input.
If somebody is happy with 3rd party scraping tools, they really do not have an excuse for saying no to this.
It's really difficult to see somebody being pro or so called 'neutral' on 3rd party scraping tools but against this suggestion as being so for any other reason than wishing to protect the advantage of having access to a sraping tool, whether designed by them or having access to it thanks to somebody else's work inside their team.
Even the reasons being used to say no to the suggestion by ppl supporting 3rd party scraping can actually be used for why scraping shouldn't be allowed. One person does all the work creating the system, but a bunch of lazy and/or incapable team members gain all the benefit etc etc.
You're choosing to reward people who have the skills to gain backdoor access to the servers... how is that the acceptable way the game should be played but allowing teammates to share data over the game platform itself is not the acceptable way to play?
Mindboggling.
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