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Тема: Tire Choice |
108 ответов
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I was going to say I wont comment further but ..B U T.. There are some tracks where extra soft tires are a disadvantage and actually make you loose time.. So no matter what I say the "NAY SAYERS" will continue to drone on.. Quote ( Neil Mcewan @ March 31st 2009,14:54:03 )
It should stay as it is, it will be very difficult for people who work a lot and have children to be on to choose when to use which tyre.
Qualifying would become less interesting aswell I give up, as I said I wont follow with this thread.. I honestly believe that no matter what a newbie and a woman says will get noticed by ANYONE that has the capacity to make fundamental changes to the game, let alone the rules.
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Quote ( Misty Knots @ March 31st 2009,15:02:55 )
I honestly believe that no matter what a newbie and a woman says will get noticed by ANYONE
As was pointed out very early in the thread, the whole idea of two tyre compounds has been brought up many times before and effectively been rejected.
Quote ( Giann Gorospe @ March 31st 2009,08:28:10 )
The tire choice debate has come up at least this many times before:
/forum/ViewTopic.asp?TopicId=5266
/forum/ViewTopic.asp?TopicId=6009
/forum/ViewTopic.asp?TopicId=5694
/forum/ViewTopic.asp?TopicId=7330
So whilst you have your view about the topic, it is not a new discussion I am afraid.
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I have a different point of view. (couldn't check all the posts in the other topics to find out if this has ever been sugested, but nway...)
I think we could and need to have another approach to the tyre thing. In some circuits it's very commom to see everybody going for the same strategy, same tyre compound... I think that sucks. Some races are just more from the same each new lap.
My point is that Giann's argument is not entirely valid. People already have the same strategy, choosing what's known as the best tyre. If the overtaking is very hard. Go for a hard compound. If the overtaking is not hard and the pit is fast... go for a more soft compound... examples.
But if we HAD to choose different tyres.. for the stints! it would be great! if we HAD to choose different tyre for the stints (like 1 mandatory choice for softs/x-soft per race, i.e.) the planning strategy proccess would be way more challenging. And races would be more fun. Today, after 30-35 laps you know everybodies tyre and when they're going to stop. But with diff tyres.. after lap 30 people would still be trying to figure out what's the other guy strategy. "What compound is he using now?"
That's my opinion.
Cheers
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Quote ( Misty Knots @ March 31st 2009,15:02:55 )
I honestly believe that no matter what a newbie and a woman says will get noticed by ANYONE
Newbies are very important in this game they can have good ideas!
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Quote ( Misty Knots @ March 31st 2009,14:49:39 )
I personally dont think so, in F1 the teams are still limited to I think two compounds per race, and they have to use BOTH.. ok, so why cant we have the choice of TWO per race
Because this is not F1 - in F1 the teams devote whole practise sessions to evaluate the difference between compounds, car behaviour can change dramaticly between the two. We don't have that implemented in GPRO. It's basicly finding the ratio between speed vs. tyre wear.
And the softer tyre goes faster. In qualifying X-Softs will be the fastest and prefered choice of all managers, period.
Quote ( Misty Knots @ March 31st 2009,14:49:39 )
My first two GPs here, I took a chance and started out on mediums when it was raining, so yeah I crashed at both starts.. so I that was the reason I originally started this thread,
I don't understand. Taking a risk at the start by taking the wrong tyres is a whole different subject than two compounds to choose?
Quote ( Misty Knots @ March 31st 2009,15:02:55 )
There are some tracks where extra soft tires are a disadvantage and actually make you loose time..
You mean one will have to take more stops with X-Softs and loose more time at the end of the race? That's true.
But with a second compound to choose, people will negate that drawback of X-Softs by picking a hard compound for the race. And since X-Softs are faster on one lap than hards, they would pick them for Q.
Quote ( Misty Knots @ March 31st 2009,15:02:55 )
I honestly believe that no matter what a newbie and a woman says will get noticed by ANYONE that has the capacity to make fundamental changes to the game, let alone the rules.
Anyone will get noticed, if his or hers suggestion improves the game. But in order to make a well aimed suggestion for improvment, it requires some knowledge about the game first. It's not about being a newbie, just about knowing the mechanics. It's strongly related to each other, but not the same. :)
And being a women here actualy helps being noticed! :P
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The main line is: no tire compound changes in middle of race(rain tires allowed).
So we should be able to do something for the tires, like adjust their pressure and get like higher straight speed, which could make overtaking easier but slower cornering speed which could make lap times bit slower depending of sum of corners. Vice versa when you go to lower presure.
I think this game need more race strategy options, which would but more weight for race strategy. I think single race strategy is in quite small part now and this game build around races, so i dont see why we shouldnt give more weight for single races and your strategy at there.
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Ok.. First of all, I understand all points of view about this Tyre Compound thing..
Here's my way of seeing it:
1 - I truly believe that we should have a mandatory 2 tyre compound use per race (x-soft or soft / medium or hard);
2 - To do that, the game would need big changes in the tyre durability.. (like, x-soft tyres could last more then 10-13 laps in a high temperature track - as tyre are REALLY soft);
3 - as for the practices to study car behaviour as in F-1, like Zaluski said.. I think we could also implement a non-mandatory practice (like the Free Practice sessions in F-1), 1or2 days before the race, so that the ones that want (and have money to do it), can try out diferent car setups for diferent tyres choices (and u could change some parts of the setup during pits too) - F-1 cars can be adapted by the pilots.. (and now they can even change FWing positions)..
This would make the game more complex, competitive and participative.. but, on the other hand, would require a LOT of work from the developers (and also some more work for the good managers)..
that's what I think..
Cheers!
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It seems to me that the main argument from most people is that everyone would just choose XS tires for qualifying and that would remove some strategy.
Why not make the tires you choose for Qualifying be the tires you use in your first race stint? Just like the fuel you set for Q2 is the fuel you must use for your first race stint. That way people would not just automatically use XS for qualifying if it didn't fit with their overall pit strategy.
And I think people are mislead when talking about making changes during the race, that is not possible, nor is it fair. All the tire options would be chosen in the race setup, just like how you set the fuel. Just add a box next to it that allows you to choose the tire compound.
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Quote ( Mike Sarra @ March 31st 2009,16:29:59 )
Just like the fuel you set for Q2 is the fuel you must use for your first race stint. That way people would not just automatically use XS for qualifying if it didn't fit with their overall pit strategy.
That's clever.. makes sense and would really make a big diference (if the x-soft tyres durability was modified like I said) - otherwise, good cars would get enough distance to stop and still come back in 1st place
Quote ( Mike Sarra @ March 31st 2009,16:29:59 )
All the tire options would be chosen in the race setup, just like how you set the fuel. Just add a box next to it that allows you to choose the tire compound.
Sure! that's the way to do it.. You must set your hole (tyre and fuel) strategy before the race.. (and pray to god it works!) hehehe
If F-1, after all this years, can change.. why GPRO can't?!
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Quote ( Daniel Pioner @ March 31st 2009,15:32:11 )
Today, after 30-35 laps you know everybodies tyre and when they're going to stop. But with diff tyres.. after lap 30 people would still be trying to figure out what's the other guy strategy. "What compound is he using now?"
Really? I can pretty much tell from qualifying what kind of fuel and tires a manager is running; it's not hard with a little experience. It'll be even easier to pick out the ES light runners from the heavier cars if you do this. You're going to tell me that you can't tell when someone's 1 second faster than you a lap you can't tell what tyre they're using?
Quote ( Guilherme Bello @ March 31st 2009,16:24:30 )
2 - To do that, the game would need big changes in the tyre durability.. (like, x-soft tyres could last more then 10-13 laps in a high temperature track - as tyre are REALLY soft);
Wait. You want them to last LONGER than 10-13 laps? Even if you meant the opposite, what makes you think they do?
Quote ( Guilherme Bello @ March 31st 2009,16:24:30 )
3 - as for the practices to study car behaviour as in F-1, like Zaluski said.. I think we could also implement a non-mandatory practice (like the Free Practice sessions in F-1), 1or2 days before the race, so that the ones that want (and have money to do it), can try out diferent car setups for diferent tyres choices (and u could change some parts of the setup during pits too) - F-1 cars can be adapted by the pilots.. (and now they can even change FWing positions)..
Isn't that what testing is for? It IS available between every race.
Quote ( Mike Sarra @ March 31st 2009,16:29:59 )
Why not make the tires you choose for Qualifying be the tires you use in your first race stint? Just like the fuel you set for Q2 is the fuel you must use for your first race stint. That way people would not just automatically use XS for qualifying if it didn't fit with their overall pit strategy.
You can make ESs fit into a 1 or 2 stop strategy in this game without any serious trouble for most weather conditions, so it would still lead to ES qualifying.
Quote ( Guilherme Bello @ March 31st 2009,16:38:33 )
If F-1, after all this years, can change.. why GPRO can't?!
1)Not F1.
2)Because the coding overhaul would require either a) an extended break in gameplay, which would completely counter the current expansion, or b) additional time outside of running the server to be put in by the admins, who have lives too.
It's just not something you should realistically expect anytime soon.
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Quote ( Jordan Randall @ March 31st 2009,07:51:07 )
it would make the game a LOT more competative for sure. Quote ( Troy Sheahen @ March 31st 2009,08:04:20 )
let's face it we would all use x softs in qualifying except when it rained.
And that's the fundamental problem.
Everyone would qualify on Extra Soft tyres with a light fuel load; after their first (and only stop) switch to harder tyres and lots of fuel and with their blocking strategies set, try to hold off the wolves for the remainder of the race.
What fun would there be in that?
The way it is works fine. Leave it "as is."
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#42 Размещено 31 Март 2009, 17:40:07 (последняя редакция 31 Март 2009, 17:51:48 от Roy Go)
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lovely
another thread asking to make the game a little easier for ppl
get up your asses and think pls
until now, no suggestions i've read are actually intelligible.
more like ppl whining like 8 yr olds
i'm sorry but it's a fact
when you try suggesting, pls think of the whole community and how it affects them and not only how it affects YOU and your group/team/division and most especially YOU
also, read before posting
READ READ READ
if you dont bother to read/understand previous topics on the subject, dont bother posting coz you're just repeating the same mistakes over and over (a major flaw in human behavior that makes progress go ever so slowly) and the collective dumbing of a lot of others who are awed by your "clever" idea (because they follow your train of thought w/o reading/understanding the counter-arguments in other threads).
READ READ READ
end of rant
P.S. did anyone notice that the only ones agreeing to this are rookies and amateurs
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I think this is a good idea.
Quote ( Misty Knots @ March 31st 2009,14:23:20 )
STILL I'd like there to be more than ONE tire setup option per race.
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Quote ( Jeff Garcia @ March 31st 2009,17:23:43 )
Everyone would qualify on Extra Soft tyres with a light fuel load; after their first (and only stop) switch to harder tyres and lots of fuel and with their blocking strategies set, try to hold off the wolves for the remainder of the race.
What fun would there be in that?
I think that this is exactly the stratergy used by front running teams like Ferrarri, McLaren and Williams for the last 7 years
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for the nth time, this is not real life F1
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Roy.. go........ Dunno babe you do what you have to ok? Its not so much about making things easier, its to give managers more options when creating a strategy, so far its a moot point that the race is actually done between the time the qualifying ends and the race is run "live", ie in the 90 minutes in between. But and I say this with humility, to have an additional choice in tire for the race would make the strategy HARDER, giving us the manager more options. Right now I'm really sorry, I was not aware that this particular thread was worn out(Pun intended) I was honestly curious, I wont get into a bitch-slapping with you just to feed your ego, as I said 10 posts ago I get the picture and am sorry I raised the subject of multiple tire choices during a race
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Quote ( Misty Knots @ March 31st 2009,18:04:14 )
am sorry I raised the subject of multiple tire choices during a race you were entitled to your own opinion and ideas. no need to apologize. only trying to help and thats what counts :)
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Quote ( Byron Higgins @ March 31st 2009,17:46:13 )
I think that this is exactly the stratergy used by front running teams like Ferrarri, McLaren and Williams for the last 7 years Which is why a drastic set of rule changes was brought on for 2009.
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#49 Размещено 31 Март 2009, 18:25:43 (последняя редакция 31 Март 2009, 18:26:49 от Roy Go)
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sorry
it's just frustrating to find these suggestion topics where suggestions are trash to begin with
to argue against your suggestion:
for now,
1) for 1 stop strategies, most of the time, you have to stick to HARD tires.
w/ your suggestion, it makes you quicker coz you can choose 1 set of hard tires and maybe softs/xsofts
This negates the difficult choice of using hard tires for the whole race
2) for 2 stop strategies, most use softs or meds depending on the race
w/ your suggestion, it makes you quicker again coz you can choose xsofts, xsofts, meds OR xsofts, soft, soft
3) coz 3 stops, well, do i have to say it? xsofts, xsoft, xsoft, xsoft
i fail to see the added difficulty you are suggesting
yes you can exchange the order of things. but it doesnt change the fact that it makes you quicker in the race,
which was not the intention of giving ppl only 1 tire choice
xsofts would be used like almost every single race
more strategy? i think not.
on the contrary, it negates difficult choices, essentially making things a lot simpler
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Quote ( Giann Gorospe @ March 31st 2009,17:17:40 )
You can make ESs fit into a 1 or 2 stop strategy in this game without any serious trouble for most weather conditions, so it would still lead to ES qualifying.
Quote ( Jeff Garcia @ March 31st 2009,17:23:43 )
Everyone would qualify on Extra Soft tyres with a light fuel load; after their first (and only stop) switch to harder tyres and lots of fuel and with their blocking strategies set, try to hold off the wolves for the remainder of the race.
I'm not sure a 1 stop race with XS/Hard is a guarentee win. And certainly there are strategies that could beat that. Say you qualify with Softs and they qualify with XS. They're going to pit early and then be slower because they have heavy cars and hard tires. So maybe you can generate a big enough lead over them after they pit, that when you pit and come back out, you'll be ahead of them. Then they won't be able to block and not be able to catch you because of their poor strategy and tire/fuel choice. I'm not sure it's a given that there's no way to counteract the XS/Hard 1 stop/blocking strategy. And it's quite the assumption that everyone of the leading qualifiers would automatically do that.
I know some have argued that increasing options does not necessairly increase strategy and that is a valid point for many other issues. I don't think that point makes sense in this case because that point is based on the assumption all the top qualifiers would use the exact same strategy of XS Qual/Hard Block and no one would be able to stop them.
Right now for a race you have 4 strategic options for tires (excluding rain). If you were to add this enhancement of allowing managers to changes tires at pit stops (just like they can change their fuel load! And maybe I should dive into that a a subtopic... what is the difference between allowing managers to change their fuel load during race and allowing them to change their tire compound during the race? Why should one be allowed and not another? Sorry I digress). But if you allow managers to change their tire compound, it would greatly increase the strategic options available to them. Which makes the game more interesting.
It's like everyone is satisfied with a 2x2 rubix cube and not willing to go with the more interesting 3x3 rubix cube.
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Quote ( Giann Gorospe @ March 31st 2009,17:17:40 )
Quote ( Daniel Pioner @ March 31st 2009,15:32:11 )
Today, after 30-35 laps you know everybodies tyre and when they're going to stop. But with diff tyres.. after lap 30 people would still be trying to figure out what's the other guy strategy. "What compound is he using now?"
Really? I can pretty much tell from qualifying what kind of fuel and tires a manager is running; it's not hard with a little experience. It'll be even easier to pick out the ES light runners from the heavier cars if you do this. You're going to tell me that you can't tell when someone's 1 second faster than you a lap you can't tell what tyre they're using?
Yeah.. you and everybody else, dude. But then you know his strategy and stint range for the whole race. What we're trying to do here is avoid that, 'cause the compound a player start it won't necessarily be the one he will finish.
Quote ( Roy Go @ March 31st 2009,18:25:43 )
i fail to see the added difficulty you are suggesting
yes you can exchange the order of things. but it doesnt change the fact that it makes you quicker in the race,
Makes me quicker and, again, everybody else. But the main point here is the MANDATORY compound - medium for example. This way you wouldn't be able to bet in a hard and slow strategy for hard overtaking circuits and not do the x-soft all race long in easy overtaking-fast pit circuits. Not only you. me. everybody. The game would be way more complex. The Q wouldn't mean much.. it would be only part of a strategy - today the Q tell the other players the whole thing.
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OFF-TOPIC, but I couldn't let is pass...
ROY GO, if you think you're so smart.. why the hell you spent 2 season in rookie and couldn't make more then 10points in a season?
Just don't bullshit me with you so cald inteligency..
The game starts in Amateur.. Rookie is just a fun "How-to-play" season..
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Quote ( Daniel Pioner @ March 31st 2009,19:40:20 )
Makes me quicker and, again, everybody else. But the main point here is the MANDATORY compound - medium for example. This way you wouldn't be able to bet in a hard and slow strategy for hard overtaking circuits and not do the x-soft all race long in easy overtaking-fast pit circuits. Not only you. me. everybody. The game would be way more complex. The Q wouldn't mean much.. it would be only part of a strategy - today the Q tell the other players the whole thing.
That's exactly the point.. MAKE THINGS HARDER, not easier.. if you MUST use 2 compounds in a race, you can use diferent strategies.. like starting low on fuel with x-soft tyres or trying to use the x-soft tyres in the end of the race.. (if your having 2 pits strategy).. no way to have a 1pit strategy anymore.. it would make things harder, for sure!
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+ 1
but nothing agains the 1 pit strategy, actually.
Maybe in some circuits it would still be doable.
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Interesting story. A nice idea would be to advance a strategy directly to their race to choose two different dry mixture. Example: Start - medium, 1.pit - medium tire, 2.stint-hard.
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Quote ( Luděk Valenta @ February 24th 2013,19:50:01 ) Interesting story. A nice idea would be to advance a strategy directly to their race to choose two different dry mixture. Example: Start - medium, 1.pit - medium tire, 2.stint-hard.
OR
Qualify: Extra softs
Race 1 stop hards and block like hell :)
Simple answer is no.
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I mean, what is selected in qualifications, such as at the start. As is the case with today's f1, but when stops are subject to change tires. So I am not satisfied with your answers :-)
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Do I hear: 'gpro is not f1' :)
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