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Konu: Nerf Yokomamas hard |
48 Cevaplar
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#1 Yayınlanma zamanı: 4 Tem 2020, 20:13:40
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They are ruining the fun of the tyre choice game in my opinion.
Even the tyre statistics are totally weird at this point, because the stats about points scoring and average points scored is totally misleading when 25 managers of 40 in pretty much every Pro group pick them and only 8 can score points.
Combine that with the weather favoring the Yokos in pretty much every race this season and you will look like a fool (like me) for picking anything else. Total waste of money and it feels like Yoko is the Pro (and even Master) Pipirelli at this point. I don't enjoy it.
I would suggest lowering the Yoko peak temp to 21, maybe raise Dunnolop to 23-24 and price Yokos at 2m.
What do you guys think? Do you like having the Yoko as a dominant baseline tyre or do you want more diversity?
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#2 Yayınlanma zamanı: 4 Tem 2020, 20:28:52 (son değiştirilme 4 Tem 2020, 20:29:38 kim tarafından: Mike Bennett)
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Quote ( Roland Jakobsson @ July 4th 2020,20:13:40 ) ombine that with the weather favoring the Yokos in pretty much every race this season
I do not think that this is correct, a very quick analysis...
S76 laps ave race temp
Nr °C
1 37 = contis
2 11 = badyear/hancock
3 38 = contis
4 38 = contis
5 7 = badyear/hancock
6 46 = contis
7 43 = contis
8 39 = contis
9 35 = contis
10 9 = badyear/hancock
11 18 = badyear/hancock
12 31 = contis
13 28 = Yoko
14 33 = contis
15 29 = Yoko
16 ? = ?
17 ? = ?
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#3 Yayınlanma zamanı: 4 Tem 2020, 20:29:29
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You haven't even tried yokos, so how can you know if they need to be nerfed?
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#4 Yayınlanma zamanı: 4 Tem 2020, 20:39:05
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I saw that you didn't pick yokos yet. Maybe is a good idea use it and then rewrite this topic.
You won't be agree with that things:/
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#5 Yayınlanma zamanı: 4 Tem 2020, 20:50:34 (son değiştirilme 4 Tem 2020, 20:51:11 kim tarafından: Roland Jakobsson)
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I was looking for a general discussion on the topic, so I am a bit surprised and disappointed to find personal attacks on me and my own previous choices of tyres instead of a discussion.
What I can see as not having picked them so far is that generally, choosing anything else is pretty much a waste of money because the other tyres don't generally deliver much of an advantage against the Yokos, mainly since their peak temp make them pretty competitive in more or less every race.
Of course I can pick Yokos as well and join the 67,8% who do (in Pro). But the point I was trying to discuss was whether you think that kind of dominance is good for the game or not.
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#6 Yayınlanma zamanı: 4 Tem 2020, 20:54:28
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Quote ( Mike Bennett @ July 4th 2020,20:28:52 ) I do not think that this is correct, a very quick analysis...
S76 laps ave race temp
Nr °C
1 37 = contis
2 11 = badyear/hancock
3 38 = contis
4 38 = contis
5 7 = badyear/hancock
6 46 = contis
7 43 = contis
8 39 = contis
9 35 = contis
10 9 = badyear/hancock
11 18 = badyear/hancock
12 31 = contis
13 28 = Yoko
14 33 = contis
15 29 = Yoko
16 ? = ?
17 ? = ?
Thanks for the info Mike! I am looking at this from a Dunnolop perspective and my experience this season is that I have paid more for a tire that has been worse than my Yoko teammate in pretty much every race. Contis on the other hand would have been an excellent choice this season I guess.
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#7 Yayınlanma zamanı: 4 Tem 2020, 21:13:33
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Quote ( Roland Jakobsson @ July 4th 2020,20:50:34 ) I was looking for a general discussion on the topic, so I am a bit surprised and disappointed to find personal attacks on me and my own previous choices of tyres instead of a discussion.
You don't expect a locomotive mechanic to be an expert on passenger cars.
You wouldn't much listen to a Rookie if they were talking about what is best for Elite.
The man who has never flown, probably isn't the best person to make suggestions on flight techniques.
Similarly, if you have never even used Yokos, it is going to be difficult for people to take seriously any suggestion you have about their performance.
More people relegate on Yokos than promote on Yokos ;)
Plus, theres like 5 billion topics about this already AND tires were just adjusted this season.... needs some time to flesh out.
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#8 Yayınlanma zamanı: 4 Tem 2020, 21:14:04
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Yokos are not better than Dunnos. They have one less performance bar.
Quote ( Roland Jakobsson @ July 4th 2020,20:50:34 )
I was looking for a general discussion on the topic, so I am a bit surprised and disappointed to find personal attacks on me and my own previous choices of tyres instead of a discussion. I don't see the above posts as personal attacks. They are just suggesting that if you tried Yokos, you would see that simply picking Yokos doesn't make you faster.
Quote ( Roland Jakobsson @ July 4th 2020,20:13:40 ) Even the tyre statistics are totally weird at this point, because the stats about points scoring and average points scored is totally misleading when 25 managers of 40 in pretty much every Pro group pick them and only 8 can score points. I don't follow your logic here. If with so many Yokos you still see Dunnos at much higher pts/race, it only says that Dunnos are even stronger than the statistics show.
Quote ( Roland Jakobsson @ July 4th 2020,20:13:40 ) Combine that with the weather favoring the Yokos in pretty much every race this season That's the part where you had bad luck indeed, because this season is extremely hot compared to other seasons. Yet, Dunnos still appear better than Yokos, despite this disadvantage. Maybe they really are faster than Yokos on average?
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#9 Yayınlanma zamanı: 4 Tem 2020, 21:33:59
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Even if the race is peak temperature for one tyre, it does not mean that the tyre is automatically better in that scenario. There are performance bars, durability, warmup distance that has to be considered as well.
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#10 Yayınlanma zamanı: 4 Tem 2020, 21:45:51
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Quote ( Adam Pilo @ July 4th 2020,21:33:59 ) Even if the race is peak temperature for one tyre, it does not mean that the tyre is automatically better in that scenario. There are performance bars, durability, warmup distance that has to be considered as well.
Wait.
Are you trying to say that at 34 degrees Pipis are NOT faster than Bridges?
I wish someone had told me that before, I've been doing it all wrong all this time.
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#11 Yayınlanma zamanı: 4 Tem 2020, 22:27:52
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Quote ( Roland Jakobsson @ July 4th 2020,20:50:34 ) so I am a bit surprised and disappointed to find personal attacks on me and my own previous choices of tyres instead of a discussion.
Is not a personal attack mate! Just this:
Quote ( Ania Piekarska @ July 4th 2020,21:14:04 ) I don't see the above posts as personal attacks. They are just suggesting that if you tried Yokos, you would see that simply picking Yokos doesn't make you faster.
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#12 Yayınlanma zamanı: 4 Tem 2020, 22:40:15
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I think most people here gave a fair minded opinion, Roland.
Most people want a more competitive market, the reason 25 out of 40 in your example pick Yoko is not because they think they will get superior performance, but more over bang for buck and dependable performance. If you want beyond that, you pay for it, and it isn't something that needs nerfing. You can't nerf a tyre that is essentially a budget, well rounded choice. Most people here agreed in a topic I made a while back that Yoko actually needs a more worthy competitor - that being Avonn of course - and the discussion held was very positive from my point of view. It led to some changes this season, probably not enough for Avonn to take a much larger share, but it was a start.
To me, it seems a little daft to suggest the market leans towards a budget tyre - it doesn't, Yoko just performs in the middle margins, and for most people the bang for buck is the reason they are chosen by so many. Conti's, Hancock and Bad Year are stronger offerings, and have actually had more peak races than Yoko, as was mentioned earlier on the topic.
For me, the aim has to be to bring more people to consider Avonn and Dunno in the coming seasons...Yoko does not need nerfing, it does its job. What's needed is alternatives that offer something different, and in a price bracket that makes people think about picking them.
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#13 Yayınlanma zamanı: 4 Tem 2020, 22:41:31
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Nerf Yokomamas hard
Why only hard? What about extra soft, soft and medium Yokomama's tyres?
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One thing to change - durability from 3 to 2. No supplier at this moment have 2 durability. If you want to stay on Yokos, you will have to lower your risks or go one more stop.
All other stats are good.
Dry performance - if decreased to 3 - it will be similar to boosted Avonns
Wet performance - if decreased to 3 - it will be similar to nerfed Dunno
Temperature - if decreased - it will be closer to Dunno
Temperature - if increased - it will be closer to Conti
Quote ( Mike Bennett @ July 4th 2020,20:28:52 ) S76 laps ave race temp Nr °C 1 37 = contis 2 11 = badyear/hancock 3 38 = contis 4 38 = contis 5 7 = badyear/hancock 6 46 = contis 7 43 = contis 8 39 = contis 9 35 = contis 10 9 = badyear/hancock 11 18 = badyear/hancock 12 31 = contis 13 28 = Yoko 14 33 = contis 15 29 = Yoko 16 ? = ? 17 ? = ?
Little bit of change IMO:
2 11 = avonn/hancock/badyear
5 7 = avonn/hancock
10 9 = avonn/hancock
11 18 = badyear
12 31 = bridgerock/contis
13 28 = yoko/bridgerock
14 33 = yoko/bridgerock/pipi/contis
15 29 = Yoko/bridgerock
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#15 Yayınlanma zamanı: 4 Tem 2020, 23:04:12 (son değiştirilme 4 Tem 2020, 23:13:31 kim tarafından: Andrew Wilden)
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Personally I think the tyre characteristics is in a good balance ATM.
Pricing has been adjusted this season with Yoko $200k more & Avonn $200k less.
Maybe another +$200k to Yoko to $1.9 million & -$100k to Dunno to $2.5 million, might rebalance the tyre selection.
Most will agree Avonn are Crap, BUT, if you are confident of Pro retention, &/or even Master they can be used to save cash, assuming you can achieve similar results with a good package. (I can remember when they use to be the "Go to tyre", similar to what Yoko is now. Most chose Avonn, back in the day)
Should they be lowered further by say $100k to $900,000 ?
Maybe.
So I really think it is pricing that needs to be continued to be tweaked, not tyre characteristics, if we want to see a more balanced tyre choice in the upper leagues.
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#16 Yayınlanma zamanı: 4 Tem 2020, 23:07:16
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Perhaps tyres are not as important a part of your overall package as you think they are?
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#17 Yayınlanma zamanı: 4 Tem 2020, 23:20:21
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Quote ( Lee Ifans @ July 4th 2020,23:07:16 ) Perhaps tyres are not as important a part of your overall package as you think they are?
Very true.
Frankly these conversations are happening multiple places every season. There is one tire supplier statistic that is very telling of "tyres not being as important part of package as people think" and thats the performance by Conti this season.
I think pretty much everyone can agree that this season has favored conti/yoko with the temperatures .... yet for some reason it seems like most who took Conti in Pro/Master is doing pretty poorly. Does this mean Conti is a poor tire? Obsolutely not..... it just means that those who took Conti are not properly managing their package this season.
Frankly, Conti managers in pro/master should be absolutely destroying the charts this season.
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#18 Yayınlanma zamanı: 4 Tem 2020, 23:34:01
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I think at least part of this can be explained by the fact that people rarely pick contis for promoting
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#19 Yayınlanma zamanı: 4 Tem 2020, 23:42:19 (son değiştirilme 4 Tem 2020, 23:42:30 kim tarafından: Michael Keeney)
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There is one reason why good managers pick yokos and its yet to be mentioned in this noob topic and comments lol
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#20 Yayınlanma zamanı: 5 Tem 2020, 00:09:27
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Quote ( Daniel Douglas @ July 4th 2020,23:20:21 ) yet for some reason it seems like most who took Conti in Pro/Master is doing pretty poorly That's the one part of the story and it's true.
The other part is that they didn't chose Contis to destroy the charts,but they were looking to OBP and retention. Looking at your group,they have succeded. No Conti is relegating at the moment.
And looking at every Master group,managers with Contis look very good.
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#21 Yayınlanma zamanı: 5 Tem 2020, 00:29:12
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Quote ( George Togas @ July 5th 2020,00:09:27 ) Quote ( Daniel Douglas @ July 4th 2020,23:20:21 )
yet for some reason it seems like most who took Conti in Pro/Master is doing pretty poorly That's the one part of the story and it's true.
The other part is that they didn't chose Contis to destroy the charts,but they were looking to OBP and retention. Looking at your group,they have succeded. No Conti is relegating at the moment.
And looking at every Master group,managers with Contis look very good.
This is true,
But in many instances these managers could be much better off financially with a slightly different strategy. I'm not talking points in my references either.
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#22 Yayınlanma zamanı: 5 Tem 2020, 01:22:48 (son değiştirilme 5 Tem 2020, 01:23:02 kim tarafından: George Togas)
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Quote ( Daniel Douglas @ July 5th 2020,00:29:12 ) But in many instances these managers could be much better off financially with a slightly different strategy What about you?
You are at -48m right now compared with the start of the season.
Only 1 manager that runs with Conti's has bigger loss.
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#23 Yayınlanma zamanı: 5 Tem 2020, 01:59:12
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Quote ( Roland Jakobsson @ July 4th 2020,20:13:40 ) it feels like Yoko is the Pro (and even Master) Pipirelli at this point. I don't enjoy it.
It's hard to convince your master group to start a pipi cartel but a Yoko one was way more realistic. It almost worked :(
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#24 Yayınlanma zamanı: 5 Tem 2020, 02:25:44 (son değiştirilme 5 Tem 2020, 02:36:03 kim tarafından: Daniel Douglas)
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Quote ( George Togas @ July 5th 2020,01:22:48 ) What about you?
You are at -48m right now compared with the start of the season.
Only 1 manager that runs with Conti's has bigger loss.
Indeed, though I'm better off than I budgeted for (slightly).
Considering I budgeted for a hot season (worst case for tires I was selecting), things played out well. I consider the season a success as a whole as I accomplished those goals I had set out thus far. I definitely would have been better off with Yoko or Conti ;)
Of course managers with Contis SHOULD have had a better season than managers that selected badyears lol. I'm just saying that quite a few of those managers could have had a better, financially, season.
Gotta remember.... just because you can retain (money and points) doesn't mean you are planning to or that you will in the end :D
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#25 Yayınlanma zamanı: 5 Tem 2020, 07:55:30
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Can't see michelins on any of the lists.
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Quote ( Ania Piekarska @ July 4th 2020,21:14:04 ) I don't see the above posts as personal attacks. They are just suggesting that if you tried Yokos, you would see that simply picking Yokos doesn't make you faster.
Yeah, I guess that is true, I was somewhat stingy and I apologise. I had a general feeling that I had wasted a lot of money on Dunnolops compared to Yokos and then still had inferior tyres compared to my teammate (who has a similar package) in pretty much every race. I did not have the same experience with Contis or Badyears when I raced those.
You guys bring up fair points overall. I understand the reasons why Yokos are such a good allround choice. So far I am still pretty inexperienced in the game and most of my seasons has either been promotion, relegation or OBP. I will try them out some time in the future for sure.
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#27 Yayınlanma zamanı: 5 Tem 2020, 09:51:59 (son değiştirilme 5 Tem 2020, 09:58:27 kim tarafından: MG van Rensburg)
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Quote ( Roland Jakobsson @ July 4th 2020,20:50:34 ) I was looking for a general discussion on the topic, so I am a bit surprised and disappointed to find personal attacks on me and my own previous choices of tyres instead of a discussion.
What I can see as not having picked them so far is that generally, choosing anything else is pretty much a waste of money because the other tyres don't generally deliver much of an advantage against the Yokos, mainly since their peak temp make them pretty competitive in more or less every race.
Of course I can pick Yokos as well and join the 67,8% who do (in Pro). But the point I was trying to discuss was whether you think that kind of dominance is good for the game or not.
Disagreeing with you, stating relevant facts, such as you haven't used Yokos yet, and that you very likely change your mind when you have tried them, isnt a personal attack. Insulting you, calling you stupid, a dunce, those are personal attacks.
At the moment, everybody's been civil and genuinely discussed things with you. You wanted a discussion, and to genuinely do that, the 1st step to be prepared to be told your persective is wrong, even if it may be correct, exepcting to just have everyone agree with you isnt wanting a discussion/debate, its about wanting an ego stroked and to have affirmation not losing from own mistakes, but others cheating/broken balance etc etc.
Be careful of that slippery slope, not a particularly nice life at the bottom.
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#28 Yayınlanma zamanı: 5 Tem 2020, 17:45:10
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Quote ( Roland Jakobsson @ July 4th 2020,20:13:40 ) They are ruining the fun of the tyre choice game in my opinion.
Here is a tread from my forum to explain why managers are choosing Yokos in Pro and Master as the default tyre supplier of choice - to put it simply this is a direct result of Gpro changes to pha matching in season 67,
Link:- https://gproforum.freeforums.net/thread/1121/tyre-statistics...
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#29 Yayınlanma zamanı: 5 Tem 2020, 18:10:06
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Sorry but just diasagree with OP. Yoko's may be the pipi's of Pro+ but fail to see where they are in real favour except their price.
I choose Yoko this season, particularly from a financial point having an expensive test track which was a mistake given my package. I would (probably) have been mutch better of - pointwise - on Dunno's (or Conti's) which might have taken the edge of races finisng just outside the points TO BE INSIDE points just on durability. Instead I've to push last 2 races and still not sure I will make it (which isn't as planned).
Honestly I don't think their price increase was justified (it just makes Pro more expensive than it already was while it's still the most cost efficient tyre).
I feel the game hasn't find it's balance between costs and regular performance yet. But that's NOT only regarding tyres.
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#30 Yayınlanma zamanı: 5 Tem 2020, 18:13:29
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Quote ( Jay De Snoo @ July 5th 2020,18:10:06 ) I feel the game hasn't find it's balance between costs and regular performance yet. It's not easy to find.
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