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Quote ( Dmitry Serebryakov @ March 2nd 2022,00:24:12 )

Don't pretend to be dumb.
I cited this as an example of the fact that it makes no sense to compare the wages between countries in a stupid way.

Quote ( Andreas Ramann @ March 1st 2022,23:30:03 )

I'll just leave this here: https://youtu.be/If61baWF4GE

I don't want to have meaningless discussion here, so I hope the video above is informative.

Quote ( Dmitry Serebryakov @ March 1st 2022,23:34:19 )

Yes, it was, almost at every meeting of the UN on human rights, from Russian delicacy. All these 8 years.
Caravans of trucks with humanitarian aid.
Pensions for elderly Ukrainians in the Donbas were paid by Russia, while Ukraine did not pay pensions and cut off food supplies.

Have you heard about it? Why didn't you hear? Maybe they didn't tell you? Maybe you should look for records of UN meetings on human rights over the past years and listen to the direct speech of the Russian delegation? Or has the Russians faked it too?

You listen to your moronic media. Just listen and read them.
Learn to choose the right sources already, learn to listen to BOTH sides in difficult circumstances.
Otherwise you will be stupid...

Quote ( Ihor Rusnak @ March 2nd 2022,00:33:42 )

Quote ( Dmitry Serebryakov @ March 2nd 2022,00:24:12 )

Don't pretend to be dumb.
I cited this as an example of the fact that it makes no sense to compare the wages between countries in a stupid way.


This is a wrong and manipulative example, and you know very well about it. If you paid 7 euros before the fall of the ruble, then after that you will pay 7 euros, only in rubles it will be, I hope, about 1500.

The value of a currency is measured in its purchasing power, which was already low, and now generally strives for the level of Venezuela.

Quote ( Paweł Gierech @ March 2nd 2022,00:23:48 )

What do you mean? I have difficulties in understanding those two sentences. Do you claim, that 500k Russian citizens died in Donbas? In what period and because of what reasons? In Russia, in Ukraine, in Poland, and in any other country people are dying too, naturally. And in a territory that is affected by your invasion since 2014, probably the quality of life is definitely worse.

Do you suggest they have been killed by Ukrainians in years 2014-2022?

May I ask you for the source of these data? Where does Russia have statistics of Donbas population from? Do you have access to Ukrainian national statistics? And how do you know the fate of all people from a teritory that you don't posses, and that - against Ukrainian claims, who accused Russia of invading it in 2014 - was constantly claimed by Russia to be not under Russian control?
Or you just compare numbers of official Donbas population before 2014 and now, and claim the difference are people killed?

Do you know that many people fled from Donbas in 2014-2021 time, and moved particularly to Central and Western Ukraine, and many also abroad - to Lithuania, Slovakia, Czech Republic, and particularly Poland? I suspect many fled also to Russian Federation, but that you know better, if my intuition is right or not.
We in Poland had at the end of 2021 at least 1,5 million Ukrainian immigrants, and at least part of them were people who fled from eastern Ukraine, to avoid living on terittories affected with hybrid war. Many of these immigrants are therefore speaking not Ukrainian but Russian.

So again - what is the source of your data? It is for me quite doubtful that anyone has valid data about population on areas that have been affected by big migration.

Цитата ( Марсело Асенсио @ 2 марта 2022 г., 00:42:29 )

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Quote ( Alessandro Casagrande @ March 1st 2022,23:40:41 )

So basically Putin went straight from diplomacy to full scale invasion of Ukraine. Instead of, maybe, just sending troops in the Donbas territory to enforce protection of Russian people. Still a military action, yes, but relatively limited and going to the core of the issue. And I'm sure, maybe for the disappointment of Ukrainians, that the world reaction would be somehow "softer" had he stopped there. Evidently that was just a pretext so please stop trying to explain the invasion of Ukraine and the bombing of cities with that argument.

Quote ( Pavel Král @ March 2nd 2022,00:30:26 )




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@Dmitry Serebryakov

And one more thing from your history: Can you tell me why USSR struck in E. Germany in 1953 and invaded Hungary in 1956 and Czechoslovakia in 1968?
Those were three times the people had enough of Soviet emperors and they wanted freedom for them and for their children.
Soviets came and strictly cut off these desires. And (especially in Czechoslovakia) they called it Pre imperialictic and peace protection.
The situation on Ukraine is quite similar.
Are you proud of it?

Quote ( Pavel Král @ March 2nd 2022,00:39:46 )

Quote ( Ihor Rusnak @ March 2nd 2022,00:33:42 )

Quote ( Dmitry Serebryakov @ March 2nd 2022,00:24:12 )

Don't pretend to be dumb.
I cited this as an example of the fact that it makes no sense to compare the wages between countries in a stupid way.


This is a wrong and manipulative example, and you know very well about it. If you paid 7 euros before the fall of the ruble, then after that you will pay 7 euros, only in rubles it will be, I hope, about 1500.

The value of a currency is measured in its purchasing power, which was already low, and now generally strives for the level of Venezuela.



He still pays 500 rubles what was ca 7 euros, next month he'll pay 500 what will be 2,5 euros, on may he'll pay 2000 rubles because the internet company won't go to bankruptcy. :D

Quote ( Dmitry Serebryakov @ March 2nd 2022,00:45:08 )

I will clarify, probably the complexity of the translation.

About 4.5 million people live in the Donbas.
The overwhelming majority are Russian-speaking, and perceive themselves as Russians.
Of the 4.5 million people, more than 500 thousand have the citizenship of the Russian Federation. They have Russian passports.

In 2014-2015, Donbas repelled Ukrainian attacks, and as a result, the Minsk agreements were signed. They contained clear instructions that showed what the parties should do to end the conflict.

Ukraine fulfilled only the first point - the withdrawal of weapons, but then changed its mind over time.
From then until 2022, people died every day under shelling, including Russian citizens with Russian passports.

For example: How do you imagine the reaction of a European country to the daily shelling of its citizens, even in a foreign country, and at the same time ignoring the road map of appeasement?

Quote ( Ilia Lilov @ March 1st 2022,23:13:27 )

I just want to know if Russia is fighting for Russian people that have been victims of the Ukrainian regime since 2014, why wasn't there a humanitarian effort to help them during those 8 years? Where was the call for international support to accent refugees from the region? Where was the effort from Russia to relocate those people within its borders so they can escape their oppressors?

Quote ( Richard Robin Paukson @ March 1st 2022,23:21:56 )

What difference does it make if a person has no political background? And what does funding have to do here? What you said sounds like a newspaper article in Soviet times.

Quote ( Dmitry Knyazev @ March 1st 2022,18:02:46 )

You cannot defeat Russia. Although you have more money.
Because we're right.

You have not understood anything - the more you are against us, the stronger we will become.
Call us the enemy more and scold Putin - we will support him even more.

Although I think you are normal and good people.


https://wciom.ru/analytical-reviews/analiticheskii-obzor/spe...

MOSCOW, February 28, 2022 The All-Russian Center for the Study of Public Opinion (VTsIOM) presents research data on the attitude of Russians to the decision to conduct a special military operation in Ukraine.

68% of Russians rather support the decision to conduct a special military operation of Russia in Ukraine, every fifth respondent (22%) does not support it, every tenth citizen found it difficult to answer (10%).

According to a quarter of citizens, the special military operation in Ukraine aims to protect the Russian—speaking population of the DPR and LPR (26%), one in five reported that the purpose of the operation is to prevent the deployment of NATO military bases on the territory of Ukraine (20%), the same proportion of respondents believes that the operation is carried out in order to demilitarize Ukraine (20%), 7% replied that Russia aims to denazify Ukraine and change its political course, 6% — to change the political regime unfriendly to Russia, 4% — to divide Ukraine into parts and establish its own influence on parts of Ukraine.

Quote ( Dmitry Serebryakov @ March 2nd 2022,00:53:13 )

And he pays 1000 euros for 1000 cubic meters of gas
And next month he will pay 1,600 euros for 1,000 cubic meters of gas.
And in a month, SWIFT will be blocked, and payment will be accepted in advance and in gold.

And in half a year, the enterprises will stand up due to unprofitability at energy prices, and half of Europe will be out of work.

Quote ( Alexei Malkin @ March 2nd 2022,01:17:16 )

Минские договоренности 2014 года были направлены на прекращение огня на Донбассе, но их не соблюдали

Quote ( Ihor Rusnak @ March 2nd 2022,01:10:28 )

In my understanding, if people live in France, but want the Russian world. They must go to Russia, and not arrange it in a foreign country. Ukraine has been fighting not with the Russian people, but with the Russian army since 2014, but they only managed to admit it now, and even then not completely.

Quote ( Ihor Rusnak @ March 2nd 2022,01:25:47 )

the Minsk agreements and the Donbass itself was invented by Russia so that we could not be part of the EU, to apply for membership in NATO. But time passed, Ukraine was slowly moving along the European vector, and Russia had to demand neutrality in an ultimatum form. When that didn’t work (and couldn’t, but they don’t understand it), a big war began in which Russia will lose - economically, geopolitically and in fact.

Quote ( Dmitry Serebryakov @ March 2nd 2022,00:45:08 )


I will clarify, probably the complexity of the translation.

About 4.5 million people live in the Donbas.
The overwhelming majority are Russian-speaking, and perceive themselves as Russians.
Of the 4.5 million people, more than 500 thousand have the citizenship of the Russian Federation. They have Russian passports.

In 2014-2015, Donbas repelled Ukrainian attacks, and as a result, the Minsk agreements were signed. They contained clear instructions that showed what the parties should do to end the conflict.

Ukraine fulfilled only the first point - the withdrawal of weapons, but then changed its mind over time.
From then until 2022, people died every day under shelling, including Russian citizens with Russian passports.

For example: How do you imagine the reaction of a European country to the daily shelling of its citizens, even in a foreign country, and at the same time ignoring the road map of appeasement?

Quote ( Paweł Gierech @ March 2nd 2022,01:36:20 )

First, even if Ukraine didn not fulfil fully Minsk agreements, it was also because Russia didn't fulfil them either. So the fault is on both sides not one.

And finally, you are condemning that Ukraine was trying (IMHO in a mild and clearly unsuccesful way - partly due to fear of you, partly because inefficience of the Ukrainian state and inner problems incl. in Ukrainian army) to reunite Donbas with its teritory.

Quote ( Alexei Malkin @ March 2nd 2022,01:39:23 )

and got more and more their territory back with US arming.

Quote ( Alexei Malkin @ March 2nd 2022,01:39:23 )

Quote ( Paweł Gierech @ March 2nd 2022,01:36:20 )

First, even if Ukraine didn not fulfil fully Minsk agreements, it was also because Russia didn't fulfil them either. So the fault is on both sides not one. so here you're justifying people kills in Donbass

Quote ( Aleksandar Tot @ March 2nd 2022,01:48:00 )

Questions for participants of this thread (I will appreciate answers from all of you): Is it satisfying to sit in your cozy rooms, play browser games and promote information that all of you get from "non-censored" media that you selected? Also, since all of you are talking about freedom, do you even know what is the meaning of this word? Are you aware of the different setup of mind that you get from your environment, surroundings, and school education, that all of you are brainwashed from the plethora of pieces of information that you can not even classify as true or false (or important or not important)? Because I saw a lot of historically well-educated people here, I just hope that they are aware of the basic rule, that history is written by the winners, so all the discussions based on historical facts (especially in the XX century) are questionable. By the way, are the people born and educated in democratic countries smarter and more open-minded than the ones born in autocratic, and vice versa?

Observation from this thread: I am fascinated that nobody can understand that humanity is kept in the fear supported with an enormous amount of hate all the time. The purpose is the same, methods differ from time to time, and we are all manipulated. Democracy, autocracy, theocracy, everything is the same and you just have the wrong perspective that you are in the charge of your own "free will"... Just by reading the post from this thread, one can see how people don't listen to each other, how they don't try to understand others and how much prejudice is in humanity. Even more fascinating is that most of you just waiting for the opportunity to argue about things that are served to each of you by mass media, and using some lame arguments justifying big games that are played at the expense of the poor people... I am really sad and disappointed by humanity today...

Quote ( Paweł Gierech @ March 2nd 2022,02:01:12 )

@Aleksandar Tot (M5) - so many words just to tell in a round way that you support Putin's attack to an independent country just because it seemed that it wanted to go out from the Russian sphere of influence?

If you read my previous posts, you would know, that I didn't justify everything what UE or US was doing - incl. I condemned (as majority of Polish population) the division of Serbia, and forming the ridiculous state of Kosovo, with breaking the international rules (what is actually helping Putin since then with his aggressions to Georgia 2008 and Ukraine 2014-2022).

But no other world ruler than Putin of Russian Federation (well, I am wrong, also North Korean leaders do since at least Kim Dzong Il) is constantly threating Europe with nuclear weapon usage, and officially training every year his army on maneveurs scenarios telling about attacks on Lithuania, Poland, Latvia, etc.. So even if I can understand why Serbians have warmer feelings towards Russia than e.g. all Russian neighbours from Georgia to Finland, constantly enjoying Russian threats for last 250 years, I still hope that you can agree that an attack on Ukraine is something that should not happen.

Thank you.

Quote ( Aleksandar Tot @ March 2nd 2022,02:14:01 )

So all these things that I wrote are just trying to wake up all of you, about how meaningless is to argue regarding the origins of war (if you want my opinion, it is not Putin, USA, or somebody else responsible for any war, but humanity because we invented weapons)