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Konu: Russia has attacked Ukraine! |
18311 Cevaplar
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Quote ( Dmitry Knyazev @ March 15th 2022,12:32:53 ) Yes, you are a real polite European! :)
I'm nobody really, but I'm happy to know you're not a true representative of the Russian population ;)
Quote ( Dmitry Knyazev @ March 15th 2022,12:30:46 ) I knew you'd catch on to the quantity.
When will you realize this is not a numbers thing ... ? That's schoolyard thinking ...
Maybe this will help, though I fear it won't ...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/11/civilians-kill...
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Quote ( Miel Soeterbroek @ March 15th 2022,12:23:25 ) Let's get one thing straight. The present is already judging you.
I know. This is not the first time for us.
We are not surprised.
Quote ( Alessandro Casagrande @ March 15th 2022,12:28:56 ) This is not a problem. Otherwise Italy and Greece should be banned from EU.
Apparently, EU officials know a little more about Ukrainian corruption.
Although these are your problems.
And why hasn't Ukraine been admitted to the EU since 2014?
By now there would already be a rich European country.
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Quote ( Mark Witney @ March 15th 2022,12:35:46 ) Well yours says there is no war, so which one is the bigger liar??
I can see everything without him.
You have some kind of incomprehensible idea that Russian people memorize and repeat only Putin's words.
our country, they show a lot of things about special operations and about the war. When you watch a video, it doesn't matter what it's called.
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Quote ( Niels Van Heijster @ March 15th 2022,12:08:47 ) I'm sure, based on proven basic empiric Russian thinking, you would have colonized the entire world, but you couldn't, could you? Quote ( Dmitry Knyazev @ March 15th 2022,12:30:46 ) Why couldn't they?
Russia had established a presence in North America during the first half of the 18th century, but few Russians ever settled in Alaska. In the aftermath of the Crimean War, Russian Tsar Alexander II began exploring the possibility of selling Alaska, which would be difficult to defend in any future war from being conquered by Russia's archrival, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.
Happy to help your education ;)
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Quote ( Dmitry Knyazev @ March 15th 2022,12:41:17 ) Quote ( Mark Witney @ March 15th 2022,12:35:46 )
Well yours says there is no war, so which one is the bigger liar??
I can see everything without him.
You have some kind of incomprehensible idea that Russian people memorize and repeat only Putin's words.
our country, they show a lot of things about special operations and about the war. When you watch a video, it doesn't matter what it's called.
Is that meant to be a response? You never actually answer anything you don't like so you??
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Quote ( Dmitry Knyazev @ March 15th 2022,12:41:17 ) war
Oh, oh ... you mentioned "war". I hope you will be safe ...
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Quote ( Dmitry Knyazev @ March 15th 2022,12:37:33 ) Apparently, EU officials know a little more about Ukrainian corruption.
But I know quite a lot about Italian corruption. And talking with some Greek friends the situation there is very similar so I don't think corruption could be a real issue to join EU. EU has mechanisms to control that EU funds are well spent by EU countries receiving them.
Quote ( Dmitry Knyazev @ March 15th 2022,12:37:33 ) And why hasn't Ukraine been admitted to the EU since 2014?
There are "disorders" going on in Ukraine since 2014. On top of other issues.
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Quote ( Niels Van Heijster @ March 15th 2022,11:47:11 ) ...
only few comments
Quote ( Niels Van Heijster @ March 15th 2022,11:47:11 ) Russian government officials falsely portray Russia as a perpetual victim and its aggressive actions as a forced response to the alleged actions of the United States and our democratic allies and partners.
sometimes it is, sometimes it's really true. We're talking about Ukraine now, so that's the example. Of course, US didn't start the war, Russia did it (dear government, sorry, this is a spec operation). But it's foolish to deny US influence (and interest) in fueling the conflict.
And it's not only about Ukraine. This was happened before. So that's not a surprise.
Quote ( Niels Van Heijster @ March 15th 2022,11:47:11 )
Theme #3: “The Collapse of Western Civilization is Imminent”
Russia pushes the false claim that Western civilization is collapsing and has strayed from “traditional values” because it works to ensure the safety and equality of LGBTQI+ people and promotes concepts such as female equality and multiculturalism. The demise of Western civilization is one of Russia’s oldest disinformation tropes, with claims of “the decaying west” documented since the 19th century.
This “values”-based disinformation narrative evokes ill-defined concepts including “tradition,” “family values,” and “spirituality.” Russia argues it is the bastion of so-called “traditional values” and gender roles and serves as a moral counterweight to the “decadence” of the United States and Western countries. For example, President Putin has claimed the West has practically cancelled the concepts of “mother” and “father,” and instead has replaced them with “parent 1 and 2,” while Foreign Minister Lavrov wrote that Western students “learn at school that Jesus Christ was bisexual.” this is taken out of context. Surely someone from our government didn't agree with some decisions, considers it wrong.
Sometimes, it happens, Russians joke about "decaying Europe" in connection with LGBT and other such things. But I, as a Russian, can say that this is a sarcasm. It came from the fact that someone once blurted out that Europe is rotting. This is a reference to that message, which means that if Europe rots, then what happens in Russia? Because we are much worse off.
Therefore, this idea is interpreted absolutely incorrectly.
Quote ( Niels Van Heijster @ March 15th 2022,11:47:11 ) Theme #4: “Popular Movements are U.S.-sponsored ‘Color Revolutions’”
The Kremlin has difficulty accepting that all individuals should have the human right to freedom of expression, and that the government should be accountable to its people. Russia has accused the United States of either instigating uprisings or plotting “color revolutions” in Georgia, Kazakhstan, the Kyrgyz Republic, Moldova, Ukraine, and throughout the Middle East and Africa
I'd agree with a government position about Ukraine and Georgia. Not sure about other countries, but these two are completely clear to me. Btw, Kazakhstan's government told it about their case.
Quote ( Niels Van Heijster @ March 15th 2022,11:47:11 ) Russia has used the same technique of flooding the information space with many false claims following other events, such as the downing of Malaysian Airlines Flight 17, and Russia’s 2008 invasion and ongoing occupation of Georgia, to distract conversations from their role in the events. Again, the purpose is to confuse and distract others and manipulate the truth to suit Kremlin interests. here's I'm disagreed about Georgia. Of course, Georgian opinion was clear, they count Osetia their territory. But there were agreements that Russian peacekeepers were located there. And in the first day of Olympic games Georgia got attacked this territory. Many peacekeepers were dead, even more civil people were dead as well. So that's was a clear reaction on the conflict.
As I said, I'm disagreed with the position of my government to move to Ukraine, but I'm completely agreed about what happened in Osetia. It was stopped very quickly.
And about conflict with USA, it was very hot more than 10 years ago already.
No idea how good subtitles are here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chECCQhJj1s
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The life of any person is priceless. There
are no reasonable reasons for peaceful people to die.
Do you agree with me? I confirm this.
But that's not what we're talking about right now.
Please find in the western (!!!) Media list of civilians killed by Ukrainian (!!!) military.
Or will you say that only Russian soldiers kill civilians?
Show how much Europeans read objective media.
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Quote ( Mark Witney @ March 15th 2022,12:45:51 ) Is that meant to be a response? You never actually answer anything you don't like so you??
If there is some idiotic thought in the question, then I answer as best I can. in
You wanted to say that I should repeat what Putin said, because we all in Russia repeat only his words?
It's nonsense, but it's your nonsense.
Quote ( Niels Van Heijster @ March 15th 2022,12:46:04 ) Oh, oh ... you mentioned "war". I hope you will be safe ...
You'd rather look for the truth in your media than worry about me.
Quote ( Alessandro Casagrande @ March 15th 2022,12:53:50 ) EU has mechanisms to control that EU funds are well spent by EU countries receiving them.
Yes, I think they know that most of the European money goes to America. Perhaps this did not suit them.
But I will not insist on my version, because I have never been interested in this.
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Quote ( Alexei Malkin @ March 15th 2022,12:54:00 ) only few comments
You know I've always valued your input, as a constructive contribution to a balanced discussion, even when we are not always thinking the same.
I'm sure parts of the text are out of context, but I'm done with the bearded guy doing pretty much the same on any given subject. I can only suspect he's filled with the Russian narrative, and I feel sorry for such. Not so much for him in particular, but more so because one iis none, so there are likely many Russians following the same line of thinking. Again, from what I know, I cannot even blame them, but there's a huge task ahead to set all records straight, both Russian vs the West as well as the West vs Russia. Idiotic and clearly misinformed things like this
Quote ( Dmitry Knyazev @ March 15th 2022,13:07:37 ) Yes, I think they know that most of the European money goes to America.
It's so far beyond reality it isn't even funny anymore ... :(
What I did learn growing older was that Russia and the Russian people weren't even half as bad as what they were portrait to be growing up in th days of the cold war. I also learned that the Russian views of the West, though based in sad facts, is hugely skewed. Much like Russian people, we are not out there to get you. I dare a promise; if NATO ever would pro-actively attack Russia, as in not out of defense, all hell would break loose in all Western streets! No one would accept such. However, I do not know how NATO will react to a Russian missile, possibly inadvertently, land on NATO soil. The attack on that Military base the other day close to the Polish border, was rather close given the proven lack of Russian targeting. I'm sure there will be some excuse, and I'm sure it will be accepted as well. But such a mistake cannot be made twice ... !
I'm less informed of the details to Georgian conflict, so I won't be commenting on that, I hope you understand. However, I am well informed on MH17, and on that too Russia has follow the doctrine as described. It really is a disgrace!
The video you linked, sadly has no subtitles at all :(
Quote ( Dmitry Knyazev @ March 15th 2022,13:07:37 ) You'd rather look for the truth in your media ...
I've done so many times in this thread, but if at all you could be bothered to read my posts, you just don't wanna accept such ...
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Quote ( Dmitry Knyazev @ March 15th 2022,12:56:04 ) Please find in the western (!!!) Media list of civilians killed by Ukrainian (!!!) military.
My biggest issue with the reporting here in the UK is that, if you believed they were showing the whole picture, no Ukrainian has done wrong.
I think we all know that that is not the case. However, it is absolutely clear that the Russians are doing more wrong than the Ukrainians, and that it is several orders of magnitude more!!
Dmitry; you have a point. But it is one small point, in a flood of many counter points.
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Quote ( Niels Van Heijster @ March 15th 2022,13:17:47 ) but I'm done with the bearded guy doing pretty much the same on any given subject. I don't think that such dialogues are good for gpro, even for this thread. It's ugly on both sides. I just wanted to share my opinion for you on those positions where I disagreed or not completely agreed with what you wrote about. Just for an information to understand, or to read and accept, or to read and reject, or to read and forgot, whatever. Just wanted you to know my opinion.
And I don't pay attention on personal statements to Dmitry and vice versa, that's not for me.
There there were a couple of caustic phrases in my address too, but let people live with such hatred for others themselves, I don’t care.
Just try to be decent everyone.
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Quote ( Alexei Malkin @ March 15th 2022,12:54:00 ) Quote ( Niels Van Heijster @ March 15th 2022,11:47:11 )
Theme #4: “Popular Movements are U.S.-sponsored ‘Color Revolutions’”
The Kremlin has difficulty accepting that all individuals should have the human right to freedom of expression, and that the government should be accountable to its people. Russia has accused the United States of either instigating uprisings or plotting “color revolutions” in Georgia, Kazakhstan, the Kyrgyz Republic, Moldova, Ukraine, and throughout the Middle East and Africa
I'd agree with a government position about Ukraine and Georgia. Not sure about other countries, but these two are completely clear to me. Btw, Kazakhstan's government told it about their case.
I am from Brazil and you can be sure that the US State Department not only stimulated our 'color revolution', but trained and planted agents at the political and judicial level to organize the purge of the leaders who made Brazil a civilized, pluralist, inventive and democratic country. The United States deep state has fostered hate speech [of which I myself have been a victim, in a way] and a totalitarian counter-revolution, the price of which [the man who destroyed our country with his phalanx of armed and illiterate empowered militians] you all, reasonably well informed people, know what it is.
https://www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2021/04/11/lava...
https://www.redebrasilatual.com.br/politica/2021/04/lava-jat... [in portuguese, you can translate]
All USA Deep State moves are in a context and in a language of war and aggression.
And this is not excuses Russia's own Deep State and the Apocalypse Apologists in the Kremlin inner circle.
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Quote ( Alexei Malkin @ March 15th 2022,13:37:02 ) Just try to be decent everyone
That's what every sensible human being should abide by, anyone who thinks differently is probably best left alone.
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Quote ( Niels Van Heijster @ March 15th 2022,13:17:47 ) Yes, I think they know that most of the European money goes to America.
It's so far beyond reality it isn't even funny anymore ... :(
Read about Biden's son. Although you don't have to read it, you already know that this is Putin's propaganda.
Quote ( Niels Van Heijster @ March 15th 2022,13:17:47 ) You'd rather look for the truth in your media ...
I've done so many times in this thread, but if at all you could be bothered to read my posts, you just don't wanna accept such ...
Perhaps I missed the links to the terrorist attack in Donetsk (except for Reuters and the Guardian). Then I apologize.
If I didn't find it, will you admit that all the media are lying to you?
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Quote ( Mark Pinnick @ March 15th 2022,13:30:35 ) My biggest issue with the reporting here in the UK is that, if you believed they were showing the whole picture, no Ukrainian has done wrong.
I think we all know that that is not the case. However, it is absolutely clear that the Russians are doing more wrong than the Ukrainians, and that it is several orders of magnitude more!!
Dmitry; you have a point. But it is one small point, in a flood of many counter points.
I don't want to be right only in words.
Or more precisely, to receive accusations only in words.
I don't have time to read all the Western media, so I ask for help from you, who easily read their media.
Find me links where there are accusations of the Ukrainian military in the deaths of civilians.
After all, it does not happen that in such situations something bad happens only from one side.
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In Transcarpathia, Hungarians and Ruthenians raised the issue of joining Hungary
The Hungarian population of Ukraine raised the issue of joining Hungary. In a number of border areas of Transcarpathia with large Hungarian diasporas, they plan to hold a referendum on secession from Ukraine.
In particular, an organizing committee for the preparation of the referendum is already being created in the Beregovsky district.
In addition, an appeal was sent to Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban today from ethnic Hungarians living in Ukraine with a request to protect them from genocide:
"The Ukrainian authorities continue to pursue a policy of genocide and oppression of our people in the Transcarpathian region. It is quite obvious to us that the Ukrainian authorities are indulging the whims and interests of neo-Nazis and right-wing radicals, who have been restricting our rights and humiliating the dignity of Great Hungary and its citizens for a long period," the appeal says. - The acts of genocide revealed in attacks on us, ethnic Hungarians trying to defend their national rights, in the destruction of our historical and cultural memorials, illegal detention of Magyar activists in prisons, remain ignored by President Zelensky and Ukrainian law enforcement officers.
We are persecuted for dissent only because we have a different culture and speak a different language. The law in this state does not guarantee the observance of our rights and freedoms. Today's processes are irreversible, and it will continue to get worse and worse. We understand that the Ukrainian authorities and right-wing radicals will go to the end and do everything to shed our blood and drive us from our ancestral lands. In the unstable situation in Ukraine, they will not forgive our close relationship with the historical Motherland and against the cruel policy of the Ukrainian authorities. Neither the elderly, nor women, nor children will be pardoned.
Today it is important for us to ensure the protection of Hungarians and other national minorities living in Ukraine from violence and humiliation.
On this occasion, dear Mr. Orban, we ask you, as a guarantor of security, to use all existing opportunities to ensure the physical protection of Hungarian citizens living outside of its borders! We hope for reunification with the historical Fatherland, which will allow us to live in peace, prosper and not be afraid for our children and our future!".
It should be noted that Hungary has been financially supporting the border areas of Ukraine for a long time. In Uzhgorod, for example, a neighboring country helped repair roads. In addition, residents of border areas work at Hungarian enterprises — they are picked up by buses in the morning and returned home in the evening. You can also get to Budapest by train.
According to available information, more than 50 thousand Ukrainians have Hungarian passports. A number of media outlets reported an indicator of 100 thousand.
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Quote ( Niels Van Heijster @ March 15th 2022,13:17:47 ) I dare a promise; if NATO ever would pro-actively attack Russia, as in not out of defense, all hell would break loose in all Western streets!
This is true. There would be the exact same support for the Russian people as the Ukranians are receiving now.
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this is called double posting and once again is against forum rules. please stop it.
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Quote ( Alexei Malkin @ March 15th 2022,12:54:00 ) But I, as a Russian, can say that this is a sarcasm. It came from the fact that someone once blurted out that Europe is rotting.
@Niels Van Heijster (P20)
And I, as a Ukrainian, as a person who was born in the Soviet Union, must declare that this Russian is lying again. The idea of false values in the Western world comes as a red thread from Tsarist Russia to Putin's Russia. Even their patriarch Gundyaev said that "the war is going on in Ukraine so that there are no Western values in the Donbas." Or something like that.
Here is the material from the wiki (Google does a good job of translating into English):
Ukrainian version: https://cutt.ly/kA6eSgE
Russian version: https://cutt.ly/uA6e6X7 (less material here)
Here is the initial part:
The Rotten West are ideological clichés that originated in the 19th century in the Russian Empire during a controversy between Slavophiles and landowners in one side and Westerners on the other. Subsequently, the concept was widely used by Soviet propaganda, North Korea and continues to be exploited in Putin's Russia.
It is an expression of the cautious and skeptical attitude of some people to the ideas and values offered by the Western world, and aims to demonstrate the advantages of Russian culture over the culture of Western countries.
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Great question...!
Quote ( Jasper Coosemans @ March 13th 2022,16:14:34 ) Oh mister superior Englishman is telling Ukraine that it "should not be able to fund" scientific research because those Ukrainians are too poor and stupid. Wow. You called this thread a cancer... you're the one turning it into one. Get your head out of your arse man, learn a bit about the world.
Too stupid certainly not... but too poor certainly yes...!
Why...? ... here is the answer:
Quote ( Cameron Halsall @ March 13th 2022,16:09:06 ) Quote ( Stuart Foster @ March 13th 2022,15:20:18 )
Most of them are medicinal arn't they? Or maybe I'm naive and every bio-lab has a secret underground lair :)
The ones in Ukraine are Level 2 and Level 3 which means they probably could be holding samples of anthrax and other nasty diseases which pose a severe threat to human life. If the US wanted to keep it secret then why can you find it on the US embassy website?
Most of them... Yes...
But... Biolab on Snake island (Острів Зміїний) was level 4!!!
Have you ever heard of the organization EcoHealth?
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Quote ( Dmitry Knyazev @ March 15th 2022,16:08:31 ) In addition, an appeal was sent to Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban today from ethnic Hungarians living in Ukraine with a request to protect them from genocide:
"From ethnic Hungarians living in Ukraine with a request to protect them from genocide"
This is what the Russian narrative is called. Stirlitz has never been so close to failure.
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Quote ( Andrej Rilke @ March 15th 2022,16:23:12 )
Great question...!
I presume you didn't bother the answers around this, otherwise you would see why it makes sense for them to be there, to support early surveillance of diseases along with helping improve the public health measures in Ukraine
Quote ( Andrej Rilke @ March 15th 2022,16:23:12 ) Too stupid certainly not... but too poor certainly yes...!
So if that's the case why is there a level 4 bio lab in Belarus (RPPCM)
https://www.belriem.by/en/
Quote ( Andrej Rilke @ March 15th 2022,16:23:12 )
Most of them... Yes...
But... Biolab on Snake island (Острів Зміїний) was level 4!!!
Reliable source for that ?
Quote ( Andrej Rilke @ March 15th 2022,16:23:12 ) Have you ever heard of the organization EcoHealth?
from a quick search it's a non profit who was caught up in the conspiracy theories around Covid , but please enlighten with some relevant reliable sources :)
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Quote ( Dmitry Knyazev @ March 15th 2022,16:00:44 ) Read about Biden's son. Although you don't have to read it, you already know that this is Putin's propaganda.
One person does not paint the full picture!
Quote ( Dmitry Knyazev @ March 15th 2022,13:07:37 ) You'd rather look for the truth in your media Quote ( Niels Van Heijster @ March 15th 2022,13:17:47 ) I've done so many times in this thread, but if at all you could be bothered to read my posts, you just don't wanna accept such ... Quote ( Dmitry Knyazev @ March 15th 2022,16:00:44 ) Perhaps I missed the links to the terrorist attack in Donetsk (except for Reuters and the Guardian). Then I apologize.
If you're only looking for what you want to see, then I've clearly wasted my precious time following up on your pointers and answering to them, despite you missing many of my questions ...
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#2305 Yayınlanma zamanı: 15 Mar 2022, 18:12:42 (son değiştirilme 15 Mar 2022, 18:14:34 kim tarafından: Ihor Rusnak)
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More than 100 thousand people and organizations in the UK have shown interest in providing housing for refugees from Ukraine.
Boris Johnson
Thanks for all who shown interest to help ukrainians
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Quote ( Dmitry Knyazev @ March 12th 2022,22:29:20 ) Quote ( Pavel Král @ March 11th 2022,19:07:53 )
You had a reason - you wanted to take the territory and this was the easiest way.
Here it is, the main difference.
Europeans think either about money or about territories.
Russians think about people.
I understand the Europeans - they have too small a territory and they are always jealous that such poor Russians own such a large territory.
It's very unfair for them.
Envy is a bad feeling.
And we have enough territory.
And we will not let the Russian people offend.
Europe and America need to remember this.
Twisted words again. Can't you read? We're not jealous. Most of us isn't. We live our lives in peace and we want not to change it.
Historicaly the bigger country is the bigger it wants to be. Russia is bigest country in the world...
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Quote ( Dmitry Knyazev @ March 12th 2022,22:33:52 ) Quote ( Pavel Král @ March 11th 2022,19:19:57 )
Believe that gratitude is gone and only bitterness and hatred remain.
So the USSR brought you as much trouble as the fascists?
Can you show me the facts?
How many people died from fascists and from Soviet soldiers?
How many did the fascists build for you and how many were destroyed by Soviet soldiers?
Well, to understand - how good is your memory?
You can't compare these two things. Hitler came to us as an aggressor and liquidated millions of the inhabitants of Czechoslovakia.
The USSR came to us as liberators, brothers, and then they betrayed us, enslaved us, exploited us, and deprived us of all morality and all economic power.
The Germans suffocated us for six years, the Soviets for 42 years.
Hard to say what was worse ...
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